Logs: liberachat/#xmonad
| 2022-12-07 15:35:21 | <_Ity[m]> | Tbh imo academia kinda sucks from what I've heard |
| 2022-12-07 15:38:28 | <liskin> | That's highly subjective. Corporations suck. Startups suck. Public service sucks. Everything sucks if it's not for you. |
| 2022-12-07 15:38:48 | <noze> | things that suck about academia: terrible pay, high mobility requirement in the first 10 years of your career, no job security |
| 2022-12-07 15:39:38 | <noze> | but of course, as liskin says, everything sucks (: |
| 2022-12-07 15:40:16 | <_Ity[m]> | liskin: It's mostly stuff that I heard from people working there |
| 2022-12-07 15:40:37 | <_Ity[m]> | I cannot say anything myself, I am just a poor hobbyist |
| 2022-12-07 15:41:33 | <liskin> | _Ity[m]: yeah you're not wrong :-) |
| 2022-12-07 15:54:51 | <AskYourself[m]> | geekosaur: Why don't you trust Wayland? |
| 2022-12-07 15:55:43 | <geekosaur> | (I have a counseling telehealth in a few minutes, will be gone for ~ an hour) |
| 2022-12-07 15:55:58 | <geekosaur> | too many stories ofr people losing their sessions because the compositor crashed |
| 2022-12-07 15:56:29 | <geekosaur> | the X server has had a couple decades to become stable; if the compositor crashes I can just restart it. not so with Wayland |
| 2022-12-07 15:56:37 | <geekosaur> | (gone) |
| 2022-12-07 16:01:33 | <liskin> | dminuoso: just walked outside and there's a smell of brewing in the air ♥️ |
| 2022-12-07 16:25:31 | <AskYourself[m]> | geekosaur: Ah ok. Yeah the stability seems great. I just have the impression |
| 2022-12-07 16:25:31 | <AskYourself[m]> | that Wayland is where things are going in the future, I think X11 support is gonna stop for certain things, etc. But I like Xmonad so much that I would need to lose some major functionality to switch. |
| 2022-12-07 16:25:56 | <AskYourself[m]> | Also I'll try to get that bug report in today, I've written it down and won't forget, just a bit busy w exams. |
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| 2022-12-07 16:30:36 | <_Ity[m]> | Personally I am against Wayland due to its monololithic nature |
| 2022-12-07 16:30:52 | <_Ity[m]> | I sincerely hope that it's not the future at its current state |
| 2022-12-07 16:33:07 | <_Ity[m]> | s/state/approach to things/ |
| 2022-12-07 16:37:32 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | <geekosaur> "too many stories ofr people..." <- People will lose their session if the X server crashes as well. |
| 2022-12-07 16:38:17 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | That said, Wayland is nearing completion of its handoff and reconnect extension: |
| 2022-12-07 16:38:17 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/merge_requests/283 |
| 2022-12-07 16:44:17 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | Reconnect is already working on the big compositors and toolkits, more support coming soon |
| 2022-12-07 16:44:31 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | <_Ity[m]> "Personally I am against Wayland..." <- Why? |
| 2022-12-07 16:53:21 | <liskin> | once that reconnect stuff works that does change the situation for the better quite a bit |
| 2022-12-07 16:53:44 | <liskin> | my wife's gnome-shell needs to be restarted a couple times per week, but the X server itself has been up for months |
| 2022-12-07 16:53:54 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | It already works and is implemented in for example KWin/SDL/Qt |
| 2022-12-07 16:54:17 | <liskin> | if she had wayland she'd have lost her session a hundred times |
| 2022-12-07 16:55:25 | <liskin> | should be noted that in xmonad's case, it's not just about not losing a session when the WM crashes, it's more about being able to reload config without losing the entire session |
| 2022-12-07 16:55:42 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | Yeah, gnome is an interesting case since it was designed tightly coupled to this issue |
| 2022-12-07 16:56:06 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | The gnome/gtk people have been working on the reconnect extension afaik |
| 2022-12-07 16:56:11 | <liskin> | so even with the old design of things, I thought we'd have a compositor process that would be just wlroots + rpc, fairly stable-ish, and then separate WM process |
| 2022-12-07 16:56:19 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | And there are more contemporaneous designs in general like Cosmic |
| 2022-12-07 17:01:18 | <liskin> | oh, fun: https://github.com/pop-os/cosmic-comp/blob/master_jammy/src/shell/workspace.rs#L67-L74 |
| 2022-12-07 17:03:10 | <liskin> | didn't know Cosmic's a thing; definitely interesting to watch |
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| 2022-12-07 20:41:50 | <noze> | yeah it's a bit tragic that none of the existing compositors makes it easy to implement a separate window manager |
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| 2022-12-08 05:25:11 | <_Ity[m]> | <BrynDiscord[m]> "Why?" <- Well, I prefer modular over monolithic. |
| 2022-12-08 05:32:04 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | <_Ity[m]> "Well, I prefer modular over..." <- In which way is wayland not modular? |
| 2022-12-08 05:34:04 | <_Ity[m]> | Well, in what way is it modular? The spec in no way suggests to make anything modular, and so everyone implements a monolith, and would have to go out of their way to make it modular, with a custom IPC specific to that project |
| 2022-12-08 05:51:37 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | Im just confused, because the way in which Wayland is monolithic is because the server is the compositor versus X11. Wayland compositors provide interfaces, and can extend beyond the core. I dont know where you're getting the idea it isn't modular. Moreover, I dont really think that modularity is at odds with... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2393931cabbb8751ab7aefbe90d24245ed2c3115>) |
| 2022-12-08 05:54:05 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | I think perhaps we are simply using these terms differently, because while I agree that compositors are monoliths in Wayland there is both explicit modularity capability and compositors themselves are free to be programmed in a highly modular way. This freedom allows for things like wlroots, smithay, etc to both succeed and even to interop. |
| 2022-12-08 06:14:24 | <_Ity[m]> | I am sorry, but I won't be digging in the X11 spec to find an explanation of the architecture, or finding a page which defines the terms monolithic and modular, that is at least 2 hours of work which is a bit too much for a silly internet debate.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/7587468a6ef6cbde1afe0049cb2319491d426091>) |
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| 2022-12-08 07:49:42 | <ChaoticMist[m]> | Do we have something similar to fadeInactive but for dimming inactive? |
| 2022-12-08 07:49:55 | <ChaoticMist[m]> | Searching is not returning anything and I assume not, but just want to make sure |
| 2022-12-08 07:50:40 | <ChaoticMist[m]> | And when I say "dim inactive" I mean something similar to hyprland's dimming |
| 2022-12-08 07:52:06 | <ChaoticMist[m]> | Wish I had a video or image to showcase the behaviour |
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