Logs: liberachat/#haskell
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| 2021-06-03 12:44:06 | <stefan-_> | :t ($ 32) |
| 2021-06-03 12:44:07 | <lambdabot> | Num a => (a -> b) -> b |
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| 2021-06-03 12:53:21 | <carbolymer> | is there a real difference between `MonadBaseControl IO m` and `MonadUnliftIO m`? at first glance both seem to accomplish the same |
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| 2021-06-03 12:56:31 | <carbolymer> | oh nvm, I'm reading blogpost which has this near the end https://lexi-lambda.github.io/blog/2019/09/07/demystifying-monadbasecontrol/ |
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| 2021-06-03 13:05:13 | carbolymer | considers yeeting away unliftio from the project and replacing it with MonadBaseControl lifting |
| 2021-06-03 13:05:49 | <comerijn> | carbolymer: That's the wrong way around |
| 2021-06-03 13:05:56 | <comerijn> | MonadBaseControl is nightmare fuel |
| 2021-06-03 13:06:10 | <carbolymer> | pls explain |
| 2021-06-03 13:06:19 | <carbolymer> | from what I see, I can achieve the same effect |
| 2021-06-03 13:06:28 | <comerijn> | After over a decade of Haskell I don't think I (or really, anyone else) can safely use MonadBaseControl |
| 2021-06-03 13:06:41 | <comerijn> | carbolymer: No, there are lots of things that can't be made MonadUnliftIO |
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| 2021-06-03 13:06:59 | <comerijn> | For good reason, because their MonadBaseControl instance are insanity inducing |
| 2021-06-03 13:08:13 | <comerijn> | For example, you cannot make StateT MonadUnliftIO, because the semantics of things like "catch" are *wildly* confusing |
| 2021-06-03 13:09:35 | <sclv> | I fundamentally disagree |
| 2021-06-03 13:09:49 | <sclv> | MonadUnliftIO is essentially useless to me |
| 2021-06-03 13:10:03 | <carbolymer> | comerijn: I mean, yeah, right, I meant MonadBaseControl is more general, and one can do more with it |
| 2021-06-03 13:10:06 | <sclv> | because iirc it only unlifts things iso to reader |
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| 2021-06-03 13:10:51 | <sclv> | all my monad stacks are more interesting than what it lets me do |
| 2021-06-03 13:11:08 | <boxscape> | well it's designed to work with the ReaderT pattern so that makes sense |
| 2021-06-03 13:11:33 | <sclv> | The problem imho is that for a very long time people didn't realize that there's (basically for mathematical reasons) no way to do any sort of unlift for ContT type monads -- this is a hard barrier |
| 2021-06-03 13:11:58 | <sclv> | so we had things that attempted to be more general than actually possible |
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| 2021-06-03 13:12:43 | <sclv> | the right middle ground for my cases has always been unlifting for things that can be presented algebrically, since there's good tools for reasoning about those, and its formally sound |
| 2021-06-03 13:13:37 | <sclv> | if you understand those reasoning tools, then i've found the semantics for things like catch not too confusing at all |
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