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Logs: liberachat/#haskell

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2025-10-15 18:20:40 <monochrom> Misusing existential types, and/or taking it as the go-to technique.
2025-10-15 18:20:44 chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c)
2025-10-15 18:21:02 <EvanR> the haddock for catches just say you need to use the Handler type, and shows an example, but does not mention the existential or what that means, just assumes you know how to use it
2025-10-15 18:21:24 <EvanR> and now I only just noticed xD
2025-10-15 18:21:41 <tomsmeding> yeah the haddocks for catches is pretty good
2025-10-15 18:24:19 <monochrom> SomeException also assumes you know existential types.
2025-10-15 18:24:32 <EvanR> eh?
2025-10-15 18:24:56 spew is now known as stew
2025-10-15 18:25:01 <monochrom> SomeException is an existential type.
2025-10-15 18:25:16 <EvanR> fromException and toException are how you convert the exceptions, how they work isn't really required knowledge
2025-10-15 18:25:38 <EvanR> but if you try to construct the example for catches you run into extentions needing to be enabled
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2025-10-15 18:26:17 stew is now known as veggie_stew
2025-10-15 18:26:22 <EvanR> and perhaps still not working if you customize it wrong, and violate some rules of existential types
2025-10-15 18:26:45 <EvanR> like the my brain exploded escaped skolem or something
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2025-10-15 18:59:59 <tomsmeding> monochrom: one can see SomeException as an existential type, but in a programmer's brain, it's more a dynamic type
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2025-10-15 19:00:34 <tomsmeding> a dynamic type is a statically untyped thing that you interact with using functions that may fail if the dynamic type is wrong
2025-10-15 19:00:41 <tomsmeding> it may be _implemented_ using an existential
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2025-10-15 19:01:01 <tomsmeding> existentials, on the other hand, introduce skolem type variables into your type system
2025-10-15 19:01:14 <tomsmeding> from a suitably abstract perspective they're the same, but in practice they're not :p
2025-10-15 19:02:53 <EvanR> a sufficiently abstract perspective is indistinguishable from magic
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2025-10-15 19:05:45 <EvanR> an existential type used wrong breaks at compile time
2025-10-15 19:05:51 <EvanR> a dynamic type used wrong breaks at runtime
2025-10-15 19:06:10 <EvanR> don't try to convince me otherwise
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2025-10-15 19:08:34 <monochrom> Interpreters unify compile time with runtime.
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2025-10-15 19:11:04 <EvanR> moving the time posts
2025-10-15 19:11:15 <monochrom> :)
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2025-10-15 19:12:41 <EvanR> dynamic languages have been positing a set theory theory of types, where they have the set of all possible values upfront
2025-10-15 19:13:10 <EvanR> not sure what polymorphism or existentials would mean there
2025-10-15 19:14:38 <EvanR> (the set of all possible values probably includes some wilds stuff like javascript's ability for arrays to contain themselves in non trivial ways)
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