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2025-10-15 15:31:38 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-15 15:32:01 <dminuoso> Sure, but then you're no longer picking ApplicativeDo for just RecordWildcards, but for whatever it is that you're doing.
2025-10-15 15:32:25 <ski> yes
2025-10-15 15:32:30 <ski> [> MyRecord { foo = [<fooExpr>],bar = [<barExpr>] } <] -- my "(local) reflective effect syntax"
2025-10-15 15:32:42 <int-e> I think the "positional" variant would be Foo <$> makeF1 <*> makeF2
2025-10-15 15:32:49 <ski> yes
2025-10-15 15:32:55 <dminuoso> Ah I see what you're getting at.
2025-10-15 15:34:00 <dminuoso> I've tried to use it as well because its less brittle than positional, but bitten over and over again with slightly nuanced versions and then ApplicativeDo would just break apart. :(
2025-10-15 15:34:14 <dminuoso> I really want a doA.
2025-10-15 15:34:40 <ski> i should try working a bit more on my TH implementation of my syntax
2025-10-15 15:35:01 <int-e> . o O ( ado )
2025-10-15 15:35:27 <dminuoso> int-e: Something tells me that ado has more uses in hackage than doA. :-)
2025-10-15 15:35:48 <ski> `ado' <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/applicative-quoters-0.1.0.8/docs/Control-Applicative-QQ-ADo.html>
2025-10-15 15:35:50 <dminuoso> Who knows, maybe neither are used - I should get a hackage copy at some point.
2025-10-15 15:36:31 <ski> what would the `doA' do differently ?
2025-10-15 15:36:56 <int-e> dminuoso: but "much doA about nothing" just isn't the same
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2025-10-15 15:37:09 <dminuoso> :)
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2025-10-15 16:02:54 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: how would doA help you?
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2025-10-15 16:03:39 <tomsmeding> getting an error because doA can't manage to construct an Applicative expression for it, or getting an error because Monad is not satisfied -- how are these fundamentally different, apart from being potentially confusing to a newcomer?
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2025-10-15 16:25:19 <Leary> tomsmeding: The `Applicative` could have a `Monad` instance you don't want to use.
2025-10-15 16:25:35 <tomsmeding> dminuoso was talking about optparse-applicative though
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2025-10-15 16:31:04 <Leary> dminuoso: You could use `A.do` with `QualifiedDo`, where `module A` provides `join` and `>>=` imposing `Unsatisfiable` constraints.
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2025-10-15 17:36:59 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Well thats what I ended up using as its reliable enough for that (because it has no Monad instance)
2025-10-15 17:37:12 <dminuoso> Though in combination with some features like pattern matching it still breaks.
2025-10-15 17:37:38 <dminuoso> i.e. when you do stuff like `Only a <- ...`
2025-10-15 17:41:21 <tomsmeding> sure, but doA wouldn't fix that, would it?
2025-10-15 17:41:26 <tomsmeding> it would just throw a different error
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2025-10-15 17:57:03 <EvanR> it's interesting how something "as simple as"
2025-10-15 17:57:12 <EvanR> :t Control.Exception.catches
2025-10-15 17:57:13 <lambdabot> IO a -> [Control.Exception.Handler a] -> IO a
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2025-10-15 17:57:42 <EvanR> requires understanding "existential" style polymorphism
2025-10-15 17:57:57 <EvanR> so much for simplehaskell.org
2025-10-15 18:01:09 <EvanR> (existential style wouldn't be so bad if it was explained somewhere obvious when you're trying to learn the language. It's unfortunately not in "a gentle introduction" xD)
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2025-10-15 18:18:41 <monochrom> Unfortunately the Gentle Introduction predated existential types.
2025-10-15 18:19:26 <monochrom> Or fortunately? I feel like the problem is caused by mentioning existential types, not by not mentioning.
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2025-10-15 18:20:11 <tomsmeding> which problem?

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