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2025-09-09 13:30:09 kaotika joins (~user@user/d4q)
2025-09-09 13:30:09 <tomsmeding> for comparatively little pay
2025-09-09 13:30:09 <Guest89> Why would it be stupid?
2025-09-09 13:30:38 <Guest89> OK. I guess I'll do a masters instead.
2025-09-09 13:30:38 <merijn> Most people like their mental health :p
2025-09-09 13:30:42 Lycurgus joins (~juan@user/Lycurgus)
2025-09-09 13:30:47 <tomsmeding> if you're lucky (or select well), you have an advisor to guide you through the process; if you're unlucky, you're mostly on your own in navigating that
2025-09-09 13:30:50 <Guest89> Lol, mental health :D
2025-09-09 13:31:11 <tomsmeding> Guest89: given what you're saying, it indeed sounds to me like what you should explore is doing an Electrical Engineering masters degree, and then finding a job with that
2025-09-09 13:31:38 <Guest89> OK
2025-09-09 13:31:43 <tomsmeding> a PhD can be very enriching too, for yoruself, but it's something that you should really want :p
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2025-09-09 13:32:01 Guest31 joins (~Guest89@37.111.214.210)
2025-09-09 13:32:52 <tomsmeding> and about haskell: learning haskell (if you don't know it yet) is a good way (but an expensive way, time-wise) to strengthen your programming skills by expanding the toolbox you have for solving problems in programming and CS
2025-09-09 13:33:06 <Guest31> OK
2025-09-09 13:33:17 <tomsmeding> I'm not sure those skills are the most important ones if you want to pursue electrical engineering
2025-09-09 13:33:35 <tomsmeding> if you want to do embedded programming, maybe -- but I'd focus on playing with cute hardware instead
2025-09-09 13:33:39 <Guest31> Cool, I guess I'll prioritise learning C++ so I can get an embedded device programming job
2025-09-09 13:33:49 <tomsmeding> getting an arduino to do fancy things, for example
2025-09-09 13:34:03 <tomsmeding> (I know ~nothing about embedded programming :D)
2025-09-09 13:34:33 <tomsmeding> merijn: thanks for asking the appropriate question, lol
2025-09-09 13:34:51 <merijn> friends don't let friends do phds :p
2025-09-09 13:35:54 <tomsmeding> some people grow by doing a phd
2025-09-09 13:35:55 × Guest89 quits (~Guest89@37.111.214.210) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-09-09 13:35:56 <tomsmeding> _some_
2025-09-09 13:36:29 <tomsmeding> I did (am still doing -- 6 months to go), but it did also cost :p
2025-09-09 13:38:13 <Guest31> Basically wanted a research job after a phd
2025-09-09 13:39:18 × jespada_ quits (~jespada@2800:a4:22ba:8000:cca7:ce4f:edb:52ec) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-09-09 13:40:29 <tomsmeding> "research job" means: 1. teaching courses and supervising student theses; 2. applying for grants to be able to do more research; 3. finding and solving hard problems, by yourself or with collaborators; 4. writing your results up in the form of a paper with a strict page limit, having that rejected, trying again, maybe this time getting a published paper, and as a reward present your paper at a
2025-09-09 13:40:31 <tomsmeding> conference in a 25min talk, of which 5min are questions
2025-09-09 13:40:47 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2025-09-09 13:40:47 × pavonia quits (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2025-09-09 13:40:47 <tomsmeding> the research can be super fun, but do not forget the rest
2025-09-09 13:41:02 <tomsmeding> if you find research fun enough it can compensate for some of the other things
2025-09-09 13:41:12 <tomsmeding> but if you _only_ find (3.) interesting, then perhaps it's not such a good idea
2025-09-09 13:41:43 × chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-09-09 13:41:50 <darkling> That was my mistake. :)
2025-09-09 13:42:02 chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c)
2025-09-09 13:42:05 <darkling> Although 1 was quite interesting, too.
2025-09-09 13:42:06 <tomsmeding> if you'd like to spend your time building a product that people actually use, then skip academia and apply for a software development job (of some kind)
2025-09-09 13:42:25 <tomsmeding> darkling: I'm not saying that all of these are bad! I like 1 too.
2025-09-09 13:42:44 <tomsmeding> Still in my PhD so not much experience with 2, but I already know I'll hate it; 4 is so-so
2025-09-09 13:42:49 jespada joins (~jespada@2800:a4:2242:f900:40dc:52e2:5b75:c25d)
2025-09-09 13:43:35 <Guest31> Actually that sounds heavenly. Not unlike how I am governing my life now as an undergrad.
2025-09-09 13:44:16 merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
2025-09-09 13:44:19 <tomsmeding> do you have people in your personal circle who are doing PhDs, preferably in some kind of computer-y discipline?
2025-09-09 13:45:23 <Guest31> I studied in UCL for a while, then Dhaka for 5 years and then in Chittagong where I am doing my undergrad. No one in my circle is doing PhD but PhD inspiration comes from some members of the extended family
2025-09-09 13:45:24 <tomsmeding> also: like in any other job, academia has grumpy people who are not enjoyable to be with
2025-09-09 13:46:15 <darkling> And the usual shysters, chancers, fraudsters and climbers of the greasy pole.
2025-09-09 13:47:36 <tomsmeding> well, in any case: my point about haskell stands; choosing a career path is a complicated thing that depends very much on what you want to do, what you are good at, what is achievable given where you currently are
2025-09-09 13:49:00 <tomsmeding> if you have only a BSc in computer science, and you aren't very confident in your CS skills already, I'd recommend getting an MSc in CS or EE (electrical engineering) before trying to land a PhD
2025-09-09 13:49:57 <tomsmeding> mind that research usually has a fairly theoretical slant to things, so not only on-the-ground coding skills matter, but also your skills for grappling with abstractions, theory behind systems and languages, algorithms and algorithm design, etc.
2025-09-09 13:50:38 <tomsmeding> there is also experimental research, but that's typically still informed by theory
2025-09-09 13:50:43 <merijn> You forgot management/planning skills :p
2025-09-09 13:50:54 × tabaqui quits (~tabaqui@167.71.80.236) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.3)
2025-09-09 13:51:03 <tomsmeding> right -- that depends on how much time your advisor has for you
2025-09-09 13:51:15 <tomsmeding> if your advisor has lots of time for you, you can learn that on the job, I think
2025-09-09 13:51:21 <tomsmeding> (at the cost of your mental energy)
2025-09-09 13:51:36 <tomsmeding> (I got lucky with my advisor)
2025-09-09 13:53:49 <tomsmeding> Guest31: hope that gave you some context; perhaps it somehow helps in finding/navigating a career path. I have to go now, good luck :)
2025-09-09 13:54:44 <Guest31> thank you, it helps a lot, i shall focus on c++ projects now I guess
2025-09-09 13:57:05 Everything joins (~Everythin@5.248.97.251)
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2025-09-09 14:15:01 plitter joins (~plitter@user/plitter)
2025-09-09 14:16:24 <kaol> I think the real bug is somewhere in ghcjs-dom. Browsers use UTF-16 internally and it was an incidental result that the least significant byte of my "ö" test matched with latin1. When I tried it with unicode snowman instead, I got 0x03 instead which matches with UTF-16 unicode snowman's least significant byte. It's the browsers, every time. getResponseText is not up to the task apparently.
2025-09-09 14:24:26 <kaol> This is getting rather too involved for me. I'm not quite sure where I should even open an issue about this.
2025-09-09 14:25:12 Square2 joins (~Square@user/square)
2025-09-09 14:26:47 × Googulator quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-217b-fd1e-c506-2528-080c.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-09 14:27:06 Googulator joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-217b-fd1e-c506-2528-080c.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-09 14:27:58 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2025-09-09 14:36:07 <tomsmeding> kaol: I don't have context but if you're passing a string from JS to haskell and getting only the least-significant bytes of codepoints, that sounds like a problem on the haskell side
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2025-09-09 14:37:38 kaotica joins (~user@user/d4q)
2025-09-09 14:38:57 <tomsmeding> kaol: 𝅘𝅥𝅮 (U+1D161; https://tomsmeding.com/unicode#U+1D161 ) doesn't fit in two bytes
2025-09-09 14:39:15 <tomsmeding> you may try that to see if you're getting the least-significant byte of the _codepoint_ or of the UTF-16 pairs
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2025-09-09 14:41:41 segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
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2025-09-09 14:46:18 kaotica joins (~user@user/d4q)
2025-09-09 14:50:14 <kaol> tomsmeding: https://github.com/haskell-servant/servant-jsaddle/issues/9
2025-09-09 14:58:15 <EvanR> utf-16 strikes again
2025-09-09 14:59:23 <EvanR> oh, that issue would screw up utf-8 as well
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2025-09-09 15:04:13 <kaol> tomsmeding: I got "a", that is 0x61, when I tried that one.

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