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2021-04-25 15:39:20 <maerwald> just because python provides lambda syntax doesn't make it a functional programming language
2021-04-25 15:39:34 Alleria_ joins (~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org)
2021-04-25 15:39:54 <ammar2> where would you put something like scala
2021-04-25 15:39:57 <hpc> mostly because python's lambdas are an embarassment
2021-04-25 15:39:58 <gnumonic> isn't there like, some kind of graph reduction calculus that you could use instead of the lambda calculus?
2021-04-25 15:40:05 <__minoru__shirae> there is something resembling ownership going on in ST monad
2021-04-25 15:40:05 <gnumonic> where it'd basically be functional
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2021-04-25 15:40:16 <maerwald> ammar2: I haven't had a look at Scala and its specification, so I don't know
2021-04-25 15:40:19 <hpc> ruby would be a better example, and i would say it has enough emphasis on functions to count as functional
2021-04-25 15:40:20 <DigitalKiwi> http://www.ats-lang.org/ > rust amirite
2021-04-25 15:40:23 jgt joins (~jgt@78.162.43.217)
2021-04-25 15:40:40 <hpc> even if it's in such a chaotic way that it makes lisp macros look normal by comparison
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2021-04-25 15:41:40 <DigitalKiwi> ammar2: the garbage bin
2021-04-25 15:41:55 <maerwald> lol
2021-04-25 15:42:19 <ammar2> sure but that's beyond the point
2021-04-25 15:44:21 <gnumonic> lambdas in python are weird. i tried to learn a bit of it and... do they not capture the scope or something? i just remember them not doing what you'd expect
2021-04-25 15:44:25 Major_Biscuit joins (~Major_Bis@82-169-100-198.biz.kpn.net)
2021-04-25 15:44:50 <maerwald> ammar2: some sources say scala is based on lambda calculus
2021-04-25 15:44:51 <hpc> gnumonic: scope and that you can't do "statements" with them, only simple expressions
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2021-04-25 15:45:22 <hpc> but scope's a mess in python anyway, since variables are declared implicitly
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2021-04-25 15:45:31 <DigitalKiwi> ammar2: narrowing the point; depends are you using scalaz or not
2021-04-25 15:45:53 coot joins (~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-04-25 15:46:07 <ammar2> so it's not a property of the language then?
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2021-04-25 15:46:17 <ammar2> what does it matter what it's based on?
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2021-04-25 15:46:59 <gnumonic> tbh i found python very confusing coming from a haskell background. i know it's supposed to be easy to learn but rust has been a lot smoother
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2021-04-25 15:48:53 <__minoru__shirae> DigitalKiwi: it's not clear whether you approve of scalaz or not
2021-04-25 15:50:45 <maerwald> ammar2: what do you mean?
2021-04-25 15:50:50 <DigitalKiwi> i love scalaz if it wasn't for scalaz i'd still be using scala and not haskell ;)
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2021-04-25 15:51:15 <DigitalKiwi> <3 dibblego
2021-04-25 15:51:39 <maerwald> That's the only reasonable definition. All others are about how a language feels to you. That may be important, but is hard to argue about.
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2021-04-25 15:55:59 <__minoru__shirae> so scalaz is bad? I got the impression that scalaz and cats are trying to port haskell to scala
2021-04-25 15:56:26 <__minoru__shirae> I mean, to make it possible to write in scala like in haskell
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2021-04-25 15:58:09 <DigitalKiwi> no, scalaz is good, if you're writing scala.
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2021-04-25 15:59:28 <DigitalKiwi> scala as oderksy intends it is extremely anti-fp
2021-04-25 16:00:29 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/ArchKiwi/status/1069358576551034885
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2021-04-25 16:04:21 <__minoru__shirae> that's actually one of the reasons why I started learning haskell: I used to see occasional mentions of scalaz and cats here and there and decided to start from haskell
2021-04-25 16:04:40 <__minoru__shirae> and now I'm too deep in haskell and don't want to come back to scala
2021-04-25 16:07:11 <DigitalKiwi> __minoru__shirae: i used scalaz for years and when i'd ask questions about things i didn't understand dibblego would say to learn haskell which was frustrating because i was not working on a haskell codebase so this seems like it would not help me solve my immediate problem to learn a different language...turns out learning haskell made all of the things i didn't understand make sense ;) (and then ultimately meant i was able to switch to haskel
2021-04-25 16:07:11 <DigitalKiwi> l instead of scala too so)
2021-04-25 16:08:53 <DigitalKiwi> really it made a lot of things in other languages make more sense too. ex. python list comprehensions
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2021-04-25 16:36:36 <HelplessProgramm> Hello again
2021-04-25 16:36:43 <HelplessProgramm> I'm progressing better now
2021-04-25 16:36:51 <HelplessProgramm> I have a small doubt
2021-04-25 16:37:07 <HelplessProgramm> I have a function such as foo :: Int -> Int -> Int
2021-04-25 16:37:10 invaser joins (~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125)
2021-04-25 16:37:15 <HelplessProgramm> And 2 lists of ints
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2021-04-25 16:37:48 <HelplessProgramm> How could i make it so i run all permutations of the function with the elements of the 2 lists?
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2021-04-25 16:38:07 Thom2503 joins (~Thom2503@49-135-166-62.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2021-04-25 16:38:11 <HelplessProgramm> I tried map but it only takes one argument
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2021-04-25 16:39:42 <hpc> check out Applicative
2021-04-25 16:39:49 <HelplessProgramm> Oh god
2021-04-25 16:39:53 <HelplessProgramm> That makes my brain hurt
2021-04-25 16:40:37 <hpc> as you learn it, remember foo <$> firstList <*> secondList

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