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2020-10-19 10:33:48 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2020-10-19 10:37:42 <maerwald> kuribas: 8.6.5 has still massive problems on windows with long paths
2020-10-19 10:37:48 <maerwald> but 8.10.2 is also broken
2020-10-19 10:38:07 <maerwald> and the windows fixes won't get backported to 8.6.5 afais
2020-10-19 10:42:47 <__monty__> How many versions back does active GHC support go?
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2020-10-19 11:02:00 <dminuoso> __monty__: Judging from a recent thread on the mailing list, I'd say backporting happens as far as 8.2.3
2020-10-19 11:02:20 <dminuoso> Cant find any authoritative list of supported versions though
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2020-10-19 11:05:24 <dminuoso> servant-client question. If I want to log the request made for debugging purposes, is there some premade tools for that? Or should I set my own managerModifyRequest in the ManagerSettings of http-client?
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2020-10-19 11:06:42 <merijn> __monty__: Depends how much anyone cares to do the work
2020-10-19 11:07:11 <merijn> __monty__: I don't think there's an official maintenance window for anything but the last release
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2020-10-19 11:07:42 <dminuoso> That alone should make you wary of using 8.6.5 in the long term.
2020-10-19 11:07:53 <dminuoso> There's two different notions of "stable" here.
2020-10-19 11:08:07 <merijn> The maintenance window is "you get what you pay for"
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2020-10-19 11:08:26 <dminuoso> There's "stable" meaning it's well tested and supposedly bug free, and there's "stable" meaning it's the supported versions that receives attention and prompt bug fixes.
2020-10-19 11:08:27 <merijn> So, unless you pay someone to contribute to GHC and backport stuff for you... :p
2020-10-19 11:08:32 <dminuoso> kuribas: ^-
2020-10-19 11:09:10 <merijn> Which is fine
2020-10-19 11:09:27 hackage splitmix 0.1.0.2 - Fast Splittable PRNG https://hackage.haskell.org/package/splitmix-0.1.0.2 (phadej)
2020-10-19 11:09:38 <merijn> If your company relies on Haskell, maybe you *should* contribute to the ecosystem, rather than freeloading on volunteer labour
2020-10-19 11:10:00 <kuribas> merijn: maybe you *should* just use java like everyone else.
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2020-10-19 11:11:38 <merijn> If a company's opinion is "do all our support for free or we switch to Java", then I say, let them fuck off and switch to Java
2020-10-19 11:12:34 <kuribas> I didn't say for free.
2020-10-19 11:12:45 <kuribas> Companies are happy to pay good money for good tooling.
2020-10-19 11:12:50 <merijn> kuribas: lol
2020-10-19 11:13:02 <kuribas> But requiring them to develop or contribute to tooling is a big turn-off.
2020-10-19 11:13:04 <dminuoso> Companies are generally not happy to pay good money.
2020-10-19 11:13:11 <dminuoso> otoh nobody has ever been fired for buying cisco/ibm.
2020-10-19 11:13:14 <merijn> So that's why all our infrastructure runs on free software maintained by unpaid people?
2020-10-19 11:14:03 <dminuoso> merijn: Heh, its crazy isnt it. So many companies products rely on just glueing free software together.
2020-10-19 11:14:21 <merijn> kuribas: Companies are happy to pay good money for *non-open source* tools
2020-10-19 11:14:27 <merijn> Because they have no choice
2020-10-19 11:14:48 <kuribas> not all of it :)
2020-10-19 11:14:53 <kuribas> we use expensive vmware
2020-10-19 11:14:55 × shatriff quits (~vitaliish@176.52.219.10) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-19 11:15:04 <merijn> Given the number of companies building stuff in Haskell, I don't see anyone paying phadej or contributing stuff to cabal-install
2020-10-19 11:15:12 <merijn> But I do so people whining about them
2020-10-19 11:15:21 shatriff joins (~vitaliish@176.52.219.10)
2020-10-19 11:15:39 <phadej> merijn: IOHK pays
2020-10-19 11:15:48 <phadej> merijn: in fact for all the work in 2020
2020-10-19 11:16:05 <merijn> phadej: That's good, but still only one out of probably hundreds :)
2020-10-19 11:16:21 <kuribas> we pay for intellij licenses, so I don't see why we wouldn't pay for haskell tooling.
2020-10-19 11:16:36 <dminuoso> phadej: Do they pay you directly? Or does the money go to some foundation?
2020-10-19 11:16:37 <merijn> kuribas: Because you can't get intellij without paying for the license
2020-10-19 11:16:53 <phadej> kuribas: cabal is more like `mvn`, it's not "tooling" per se
2020-10-19 11:16:59 <kuribas> we can get eclipse for free... but intellij is just better
2020-10-19 11:17:00 <phadej> or very low-level
2020-10-19 11:17:07 <merijn> In general IOHK seems to contribute more than many others
2020-10-19 11:17:21 <merijn> kuribas: Note how eclipse is open source and intellij isn't?
2020-10-19 11:17:31 <phadej> dminuoso: IOHK pays Well-Typed for someone to work on Cabal
2020-10-19 11:17:34 <merijn> You're just making my point for me ;)
2020-10-19 11:17:57 <phadej> dminuoso: similarish setup how companies X and Y pay Well_Typed for someone to work on GHC
2020-10-19 11:18:10 <kuribas> isn't FP complete doing some work on haskell infra?
2020-10-19 11:18:12 × olligobber quits (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-19 11:18:15 <merijn> If we made cabal-install closed source I'm sure we could have a well-funded company in no time and thus much more dedicated work
2020-10-19 11:18:22 <phadej> kuribas: not as far as I'm aware
2020-10-19 11:18:30 <merijn> Isn't FP complete mostly doing work on fracturing the infrastructure community? :p
2020-10-19 11:18:33 <phadej> or well, you can say Stacakge is haskell infra
2020-10-19 11:18:46 × avoandmayo quits (~textual@122-58-158-238-adsl.sparkbb.co.nz) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-19 11:18:47 <phadej> but it's more or less owned by FP complete, so you can say "on their infra" as well (IMO)
2020-10-19 11:19:48 <kuribas> merijn: why not a closed source IDE, where the developpers also contribute to tooling and compilers?
2020-10-19 11:20:27 <sclv> not enough users
2020-10-19 11:20:40 christo joins (~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-10-19 11:20:44 <merijn> Also, then all the beginners, hobbiests, etc. are left out

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