Home freenode/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs: freenode/#haskell

←Prev  Next→ 502,152 events total
2021-05-10 09:09:04 <[exa]> now? scotty
2021-05-10 09:09:14 <dminuoso> I use servant a lot, but Im a seasoned haskeller
2021-05-10 09:09:40 <dminuoso> To a beginner, Id undoudtedly recommend scotty first probablyt
2021-05-10 09:09:44 <[exa]> I have 1 servant stuff running though, I wanted the autogenerated API docs and I'm pretty sure it's never going to change and I don't want to touch it again
2021-05-10 09:09:52 <tdammers> sometimes, the added complexity of servant is worth it, sometimes it's not
2021-05-10 09:10:29 <dminuoso> sphi: The main usefulness of servant is when you write both server and client in Haskell, and perhaps even generate something like Swagger and/or documentation from it, such that you have type checked guarantee of coherence
2021-05-10 09:10:31 <[exa]> (btw that's why there are 2 packages, not a single big unifying one :] )
2021-05-10 09:10:41 <dminuoso> (such that the server/client/docs/openapi all match up)
2021-05-10 09:10:51 <sphi> so there isn't a "servant is clearly more powerful, but the learning curve cost is sometimes too much, but if you can, you should pick it up thing" ?
2021-05-10 09:10:59 <tdammers> no
2021-05-10 09:11:13 <sphi> *pardon the noobness of the quesstions*
2021-05-10 09:11:20 <dminuoso> sphi: Its rather it has certain advantages for some usage patterns, but it's its very costly to use for no good reason.
2021-05-10 09:11:21 <tdammers> it's a reasonable question
2021-05-10 09:11:33 <dminuoso> And its a harsh introduction for newcomers
2021-05-10 09:11:34 × knupfer quits (~Thunderbi@2a02:3038:406:c659:d4fd:5d5a:d8dd:f80a) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-10 09:11:53 <tdammers> there's also a bit of over-hypedness to servant - even the servant maintainers themselves do not recommend using servant for everything
2021-05-10 09:13:30 <[exa]> sphi: btw what did you use so far?
2021-05-10 09:14:18 <sphi> [exa]: scotty
2021-05-10 09:14:53 <sphi> it seems its more monad transformer style code
2021-05-10 09:15:15 × wei2912 quits (~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-10 09:15:37 <dminuoso> Well, you can have monad transformers with servant too.. its just a bit more noise
2021-05-10 09:17:22 <sphi> i am just trying to get a web thing under my belt for when i have to make APis
2021-05-10 09:17:31 <sphi> and wondering where do i put my time
2021-05-10 09:18:07 <sphi> i am fine with learning curves (i rather enjoy them, just not just for the sake of it)
2021-05-10 09:18:52 <sphi> tl;dr trying to go for the most useful thing to learn (i know, nothing's perfect for everything)
2021-05-10 09:20:05 <sphi> but since it's haskell, something that gives me the advantange of writing my api's IN haskell (type safety, runtime garuntees, correctness etc) seems a nice thought
2021-05-10 09:22:36 <[exa]> ah if you already have done some scotty then just try servant, you'll see
2021-05-10 09:23:16 <[exa]> it originally sounded a bit like you're migrating from Flask or something (sorry :] )
2021-05-10 09:26:50 <sphi> [exa]: flask was my go-to before i came to haskell-land.
2021-05-10 09:27:26 <sphi> now the haskell code writing experience suits me so much, id rather do all the new stuff in it.
2021-05-10 09:27:41 × geowiesnot quits (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-10 09:27:54 <sphi> and was just looking for the thing to pick up that i could just reach out to when i need to do web stuff.
2021-05-10 09:28:07 <sphi> and not think about it ?
2021-05-10 09:28:14 <sphi> if that makes sense ?
2021-05-10 09:28:57 m_shiraeeshi joins (~shiraeesh@46.34.206.81)
2021-05-10 09:29:11 <sphi> scotty and servant and maybe yesod seem like the main things in the space.
2021-05-10 09:29:27 <sphi> was looking to draw on you fine people's wisdom
2021-05-10 09:29:32 <sphi> : )
2021-05-10 09:30:32 <sphi> .
2021-05-10 09:31:04 <[exa]> yesod is a nice TemplateHaskell exercise I heard
2021-05-10 09:32:13 <dminuoso> sphi: Do you want to write a client or server?
2021-05-10 09:32:18 <dminuoso> (or both?)
2021-05-10 09:32:49 <sphi> ideally both.
2021-05-10 09:33:00 <dminuoso> By both do you mean a client matching the same server?
2021-05-10 09:33:00 <sphi> realistically, more servers, less clients
2021-05-10 09:33:04 <dminuoso> Or separate clients?
2021-05-10 09:33:40 <sphi> dminuoso: i am tired of writing frontend in _insert javascript fw flavour of the year_ here
2021-05-10 09:33:44 jneira[m] joins (~jneira@88.red-37-10-143.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-05-10 09:34:06 <sphi> i'd rather use a dsl like lucid and server side render now, if i can help it.
2021-05-10 09:34:30 elfets joins (~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-05-10 09:34:39 <Rembane> sphi: Have you checked out PureScript? ...if you sometimes need something fun for the frontend?
2021-05-10 09:34:41 <sphi> lucid + clay seem just the thing. not used them tho, look alright on paper tho
2021-05-10 09:35:14 <sphi> Rembane: i know about it, haven't really given it a serious look
2021-05-10 09:35:17 <dminuoso> Personally I think the current state of web technology is a bad fit for Haskell.
2021-05-10 09:35:18 <sphi> should i ?
2021-05-10 09:35:36 <sphi> dminuoso: current state of web technology is a mistake
2021-05-10 09:35:41 <dminuoso> Sure
2021-05-10 09:35:42 <Rembane> sphi: It depends on how much time you have. It is a very deep rabbit hole.
2021-05-10 09:35:50 <Rembane> dminuoso: Why?
2021-05-10 09:38:43 __monty__ joins (~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
2021-05-10 09:42:54 × nineonine quits (~nineonine@2604:3d08:7783:f200:5c3d:ae41:1644:7ac) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-10 09:44:25 × jneira[m] quits (~jneira@88.red-37-10-143.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-10 09:44:31 × rdivyanshu quits (uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqgbdfengdpibalf) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-10 09:45:17 safinaskar joins (~user@109-252-90-136.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
2021-05-10 09:45:29 <safinaskar> how to see table of all versions of given hackage package?
2021-05-10 09:45:37 <safinaskar> with dates of publication
2021-05-10 09:45:37 oxide joins (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren)
2021-05-10 09:45:49 <safinaskar> and preferably with equations for dependencies
2021-05-10 09:48:23 × jb55 quits (~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-10 09:48:46 jb55 joins (~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55)
2021-05-10 09:51:08 geowiesnot joins (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-05-10 09:54:00 Katarushisu joins (~Katarushi@cpc152083-finc20-2-0-cust170.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-10 09:57:50 <safinaskar> i am trying to install some old unmaintained package from hackage. some of its dependencies listed without upper bound. I want something like this: "cabal install --today-is=2015-01-01 package-name"
2021-05-10 09:58:14 <safinaskar> i. e. cabal should install packages uploaded before that day only
2021-05-10 09:58:28 <safinaskar> (this should apply to all transitive dependencies)
2021-05-10 09:58:30 malumore joins (~malumore@151.62.127.121)
2021-05-10 09:58:32 <safinaskar> is this possible?
2021-05-10 09:58:46 <sclv> that exists. i forget the flag offhand, but cabal update will tell you
2021-05-10 09:59:08 raehik joins (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-10 09:59:29 <dminuoso> Rembane: Because modern web technology usually requires a mixture of various technologies with very poor semantics. There quickly comes a point when some of the DOM semantics become needed or apparent, or you need some quirky animations
2021-05-10 10:00:27 <dminuoso> For a while I was writing React web pages, and it quickly gets annoying when you need to interact with quirky HTML/CSS semantics
2021-05-10 10:00:54 <dminuoso> There's so many times you have to break out of your fancy abstraction and write adhoc JavaScript, manipulate the DOM manually, etc
2021-05-10 10:01:01 × waleee-cl quits (uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mkmevptkirixfume) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-10 10:01:03 <safinaskar> sclv: thanks!
2021-05-10 10:01:07 <dminuoso> Certain animations come to mind
2021-05-10 10:02:18 <safinaskar> how to see list of versions for some package with publication dates?
2021-05-10 10:02:44 <sclv> just look on hackage
2021-05-10 10:03:02 <[exa]> safinaskar: you can parse it out of the index in your ~/.cabal/packages/
2021-05-10 10:03:06 <sclv> but safinaskar as i said the index state flag you want exists!
2021-05-10 10:05:29 × vicfred quits (~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-05-10 10:05:44 × royal_screwup21 quits (52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-10 10:06:03 royal_screwup21 joins (52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-05-10 10:07:47 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-10 10:09:16 <Athas> safinaskar: do you also have an old version of GHC?
2021-05-10 10:09:53 × geowiesnot quits (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-10 10:11:03 × royal_screwup21 quits (52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-10 10:11:56 × finn_elija quits (~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-10 10:12:16 finn_elija joins (~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716)
2021-05-10 10:12:51 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@2001:1a81:53c1:c00:52cf:4e:85e5:b0c5) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-10 10:14:44 xff0x joins (~xff0x@2001:1a81:53c1:c00:52cf:4e:85e5:b0c5)

All times are in UTC.