Logs: freenode/#haskell
| 2021-05-10 09:09:04 | <[exa]> | now? scotty |
| 2021-05-10 09:09:14 | <dminuoso> | I use servant a lot, but Im a seasoned haskeller |
| 2021-05-10 09:09:40 | <dminuoso> | To a beginner, Id undoudtedly recommend scotty first probablyt |
| 2021-05-10 09:09:44 | <[exa]> | I have 1 servant stuff running though, I wanted the autogenerated API docs and I'm pretty sure it's never going to change and I don't want to touch it again |
| 2021-05-10 09:09:52 | <tdammers> | sometimes, the added complexity of servant is worth it, sometimes it's not |
| 2021-05-10 09:10:29 | <dminuoso> | sphi: The main usefulness of servant is when you write both server and client in Haskell, and perhaps even generate something like Swagger and/or documentation from it, such that you have type checked guarantee of coherence |
| 2021-05-10 09:10:31 | <[exa]> | (btw that's why there are 2 packages, not a single big unifying one :] ) |
| 2021-05-10 09:10:41 | <dminuoso> | (such that the server/client/docs/openapi all match up) |
| 2021-05-10 09:10:51 | <sphi> | so there isn't a "servant is clearly more powerful, but the learning curve cost is sometimes too much, but if you can, you should pick it up thing" ? |
| 2021-05-10 09:10:59 | <tdammers> | no |
| 2021-05-10 09:11:13 | <sphi> | *pardon the noobness of the quesstions* |
| 2021-05-10 09:11:20 | <dminuoso> | sphi: Its rather it has certain advantages for some usage patterns, but it's its very costly to use for no good reason. |
| 2021-05-10 09:11:21 | <tdammers> | it's a reasonable question |
| 2021-05-10 09:11:33 | <dminuoso> | And its a harsh introduction for newcomers |
| 2021-05-10 09:11:34 | × | knupfer quits (~Thunderbi@2a02:3038:406:c659:d4fd:5d5a:d8dd:f80a) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-10 09:11:53 | <tdammers> | there's also a bit of over-hypedness to servant - even the servant maintainers themselves do not recommend using servant for everything |
| 2021-05-10 09:13:30 | <[exa]> | sphi: btw what did you use so far? |
| 2021-05-10 09:14:18 | <sphi> | [exa]: scotty |
| 2021-05-10 09:14:53 | <sphi> | it seems its more monad transformer style code |
| 2021-05-10 09:15:15 | × | wei2912 quits (~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-10 09:15:37 | <dminuoso> | Well, you can have monad transformers with servant too.. its just a bit more noise |
| 2021-05-10 09:17:22 | <sphi> | i am just trying to get a web thing under my belt for when i have to make APis |
| 2021-05-10 09:17:31 | <sphi> | and wondering where do i put my time |
| 2021-05-10 09:18:07 | <sphi> | i am fine with learning curves (i rather enjoy them, just not just for the sake of it) |
| 2021-05-10 09:18:52 | <sphi> | tl;dr trying to go for the most useful thing to learn (i know, nothing's perfect for everything) |
| 2021-05-10 09:20:05 | <sphi> | but since it's haskell, something that gives me the advantange of writing my api's IN haskell (type safety, runtime garuntees, correctness etc) seems a nice thought |
| 2021-05-10 09:22:36 | <[exa]> | ah if you already have done some scotty then just try servant, you'll see |
| 2021-05-10 09:23:16 | <[exa]> | it originally sounded a bit like you're migrating from Flask or something (sorry :] ) |
| 2021-05-10 09:26:50 | <sphi> | [exa]: flask was my go-to before i came to haskell-land. |
| 2021-05-10 09:27:26 | <sphi> | now the haskell code writing experience suits me so much, id rather do all the new stuff in it. |
| 2021-05-10 09:27:41 | × | geowiesnot quits (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-10 09:27:54 | <sphi> | and was just looking for the thing to pick up that i could just reach out to when i need to do web stuff. |
| 2021-05-10 09:28:07 | <sphi> | and not think about it ? |
| 2021-05-10 09:28:14 | <sphi> | if that makes sense ? |
| 2021-05-10 09:28:57 | → | m_shiraeeshi joins (~shiraeesh@46.34.206.81) |
| 2021-05-10 09:29:11 | <sphi> | scotty and servant and maybe yesod seem like the main things in the space. |
| 2021-05-10 09:29:27 | <sphi> | was looking to draw on you fine people's wisdom |
| 2021-05-10 09:29:32 | <sphi> | : ) |
| 2021-05-10 09:30:32 | <sphi> | . |
| 2021-05-10 09:31:04 | <[exa]> | yesod is a nice TemplateHaskell exercise I heard |
| 2021-05-10 09:32:13 | <dminuoso> | sphi: Do you want to write a client or server? |
| 2021-05-10 09:32:18 | <dminuoso> | (or both?) |
| 2021-05-10 09:32:49 | <sphi> | ideally both. |
| 2021-05-10 09:33:00 | <dminuoso> | By both do you mean a client matching the same server? |
| 2021-05-10 09:33:00 | <sphi> | realistically, more servers, less clients |
| 2021-05-10 09:33:04 | <dminuoso> | Or separate clients? |
| 2021-05-10 09:33:40 | <sphi> | dminuoso: i am tired of writing frontend in _insert javascript fw flavour of the year_ here |
| 2021-05-10 09:33:44 | → | jneira[m] joins (~jneira@88.red-37-10-143.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 2021-05-10 09:34:06 | <sphi> | i'd rather use a dsl like lucid and server side render now, if i can help it. |
| 2021-05-10 09:34:30 | → | elfets joins (~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 2021-05-10 09:34:39 | <Rembane> | sphi: Have you checked out PureScript? ...if you sometimes need something fun for the frontend? |
| 2021-05-10 09:34:41 | <sphi> | lucid + clay seem just the thing. not used them tho, look alright on paper tho |
| 2021-05-10 09:35:14 | <sphi> | Rembane: i know about it, haven't really given it a serious look |
| 2021-05-10 09:35:17 | <dminuoso> | Personally I think the current state of web technology is a bad fit for Haskell. |
| 2021-05-10 09:35:18 | <sphi> | should i ? |
| 2021-05-10 09:35:36 | <sphi> | dminuoso: current state of web technology is a mistake |
| 2021-05-10 09:35:41 | <dminuoso> | Sure |
| 2021-05-10 09:35:42 | <Rembane> | sphi: It depends on how much time you have. It is a very deep rabbit hole. |
| 2021-05-10 09:35:50 | <Rembane> | dminuoso: Why? |
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| 2021-05-10 09:45:17 | → | safinaskar joins (~user@109-252-90-136.nat.spd-mgts.ru) |
| 2021-05-10 09:45:29 | <safinaskar> | how to see table of all versions of given hackage package? |
| 2021-05-10 09:45:37 | <safinaskar> | with dates of publication |
| 2021-05-10 09:45:37 | → | oxide joins (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) |
| 2021-05-10 09:45:49 | <safinaskar> | and preferably with equations for dependencies |
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| 2021-05-10 09:57:50 | <safinaskar> | i am trying to install some old unmaintained package from hackage. some of its dependencies listed without upper bound. I want something like this: "cabal install --today-is=2015-01-01 package-name" |
| 2021-05-10 09:58:14 | <safinaskar> | i. e. cabal should install packages uploaded before that day only |
| 2021-05-10 09:58:28 | <safinaskar> | (this should apply to all transitive dependencies) |
| 2021-05-10 09:58:30 | → | malumore joins (~malumore@151.62.127.121) |
| 2021-05-10 09:58:32 | <safinaskar> | is this possible? |
| 2021-05-10 09:58:46 | <sclv> | that exists. i forget the flag offhand, but cabal update will tell you |
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| 2021-05-10 09:59:29 | <dminuoso> | Rembane: Because modern web technology usually requires a mixture of various technologies with very poor semantics. There quickly comes a point when some of the DOM semantics become needed or apparent, or you need some quirky animations |
| 2021-05-10 10:00:27 | <dminuoso> | For a while I was writing React web pages, and it quickly gets annoying when you need to interact with quirky HTML/CSS semantics |
| 2021-05-10 10:00:54 | <dminuoso> | There's so many times you have to break out of your fancy abstraction and write adhoc JavaScript, manipulate the DOM manually, etc |
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| 2021-05-10 10:01:03 | <safinaskar> | sclv: thanks! |
| 2021-05-10 10:01:07 | <dminuoso> | Certain animations come to mind |
| 2021-05-10 10:02:18 | <safinaskar> | how to see list of versions for some package with publication dates? |
| 2021-05-10 10:02:44 | <sclv> | just look on hackage |
| 2021-05-10 10:03:02 | <[exa]> | safinaskar: you can parse it out of the index in your ~/.cabal/packages/ |
| 2021-05-10 10:03:06 | <sclv> | but safinaskar as i said the index state flag you want exists! |
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| 2021-05-10 10:09:16 | <Athas> | safinaskar: do you also have an old version of GHC? |
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