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2020-09-25 23:23:41 × reppertj quits (~textual@pool-96-246-209-59.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
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2020-09-25 23:59:30 <kirill> hi all, I was looking at some docs and saw this definition "class Monad m => Blah k v m | m -> k, m -> v where [...]". what does the "| m -> k, m -> v" mean in this context?
2020-09-26 00:00:01 × aj1 quits (~aj@185.204.1.185) ()
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2020-09-26 00:02:32 <Turmfalke> It's called functional dependencies. m -> k states that k can be uniquely determined from m
2020-09-26 00:03:16 <kirill> "functional dependencies" -- thanks! I'll read up on these
2020-09-26 00:04:37 × aplainzetakind quits (~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
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2020-09-26 00:06:25 ← kirill parts (~user@135-23-120-233.cpe.pppoe.ca) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-09-26 00:06:34 <monochrom> maerwald: There is one school of thought of coding style that wants: line n "1st long thing +", line n+1 "2nd long thing". I think ormulo putting "->" just before line break is following that.
2020-09-26 00:07:52 <monochrom> And there is an opposite school of thought that wants: line n " 1st long thing", line n+1 "+ 2nd long thing". For example the Python official coding style promotes this. I like it too.
2020-09-26 00:08:14 × Dablyon quits (~godel@173.171.157.121) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-26 00:08:38 <monochrom> Err actually the Python coding style promotes line n "1st long thing" without leading spaces for aligning with the 2nd long thing, heh.
2020-09-26 00:09:36 <monochrom> It says it's inspired by math formula formatting style. But of course, math formatting style adds leading space to align, and then the Python guide decides to give a reason to change that.
2020-09-26 00:11:05 <monochrom> I think one reason is when "+ 2nd long thing" is added or removed, no change to line n, reducing "code commit that changes spacing".
2020-09-26 00:11:08 × glguy quits (x@freenode/staff/haskell.developer.glguy) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-26 00:11:13 <monochrom> s/reducing/avoiding/
2020-09-26 00:12:14 <monochrom> Plain-text-file programming is really aging and showing its cracks.
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2020-09-26 00:31:32 × nbloomf quits (~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:cc55:612b:5adc:f6f1) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2020-09-26 00:33:23 <dolio> Arguments about changing extra lines seems a lot like one of those 'programmers optimizing what doesn't actually matter' things.
2020-09-26 00:36:13 <monochrom> I know right?
2020-09-26 00:36:50 <yushyin> but the diffs must be as small as possible!!1
2020-09-26 00:37:21 <monochrom> As I think through this again, I am now more inclined to adding the extra space before "1st long thing" because that gap is visual cue to alert you "expect a connecting infix operator to happen next line"
2020-09-26 00:37:56 <monochrom> But deep down in my heart, I like Leslie Lamport's way the best.
2020-09-26 00:38:05 × Henson quits (~kvirc@24-246-25-37.cable.teksavvy.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-26 00:38:51 <dolio> I'm not sure any math references are legitimate, either.
2020-09-26 00:39:01 <monochrom> Let me describe it by first referring to common math formatting. You have 3 long things added together, so you go " 1st long thing", "+ 2nd long thing", "+ 3rd long thing", right?
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2020-09-26 00:39:25 × spew quits (uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cksfmsrynriuwhsd) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-09-26 00:39:34 <monochrom> Lamport was like "why not make the + play the double role of being the bullet in your list of bullet points!"
2020-09-26 00:39:58 <monochrom> So his style goes "+ 1st long thing", "+ 2nd long thing", "+ 3rd long thing".
2020-09-26 00:40:36 <monochrom> This is the best of both worlds of visually cuing you to a connecting infix operator and avoiding spacing changes when you add or remove an operand.
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2020-09-26 00:41:41 <monochrom> Hrm let me check again about the math reference.
2020-09-26 00:41:47 × oisdk quits (~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:fd58:7633:8b1d:97) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-26 00:42:17 <dolio> Well, I just don't believe 99.99% of programmers when they talk about math. :)
2020-09-26 00:42:19 <monochrom> It is possible that I misremembered, that more correctly the Python guide is referring to specifically one textbook.
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2020-09-26 00:43:46 <dolio> Also math notation is all over the place, and isn't always very good.
2020-09-26 00:44:50 <monochrom> The Python style guide is at https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#should-a-line-break-before-or-after-a-binary-operator , it refers to Donald Knuth
2020-09-26 00:45:36 <monochrom> But it does claim "mathematicians and their publishers" before citing Donald Knuth, heh.
2020-09-26 00:46:12 <dolio> Haskell should ditch lambda expressions and switch to calculus notation for variable binding.
2020-09-26 00:46:27 <dolio> fmap (x + 1 dx) [1,2,3]
2020-09-26 00:46:49 <monochrom> haha
2020-09-26 00:47:06 <monochrom> f x = x + 2*y dy
2020-09-26 00:48:04 × kritzefitz quits (~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-26 00:48:22 <monochrom> I like Lamport's the best. It has the most symmetry.
2020-09-26 00:49:35 <monochrom> But don't worry, I don't have a strong conviction in this. I'm OK with the other two styles.
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2020-09-26 00:51:31 <monochrom> You know that the calculus dx notation takes on a life of its own, right? Actually two or even more lives.
2020-09-26 00:51:51 <monochrom> One is infinitestimal non-standard analysis.
2020-09-26 00:51:53 <dolio> Yes.
2020-09-26 00:52:13 <dolio> You can actually make sense of all the 'wrong' stuff that physicists do using something like synthetic differential geometry, I think.
2020-09-26 00:52:16 <monochrom> Another is those 1-forms, 2-forms, etc., wedge products, tensor thingies in differential geometry.
2020-09-26 00:52:31 <EvanR> "all" the wrong stuff?
2020-09-26 00:52:32 <monochrom> Yeah that.
2020-09-26 00:52:36 <dolio> Actually, probably weirder stuff that physicists even come up with, I've heard.
2020-09-26 00:52:42 <dolio> Than, even.
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