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2021-04-13 20:36:16 × hypercube quits (hypercube@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/hypercube) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-13 20:39:42 Foritus_ joins (~buggery@cpc91316-watf11-2-0-cust68.15-2.cable.virginm.net)
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2021-04-13 20:40:03 <hololeap> is there a name for this: "if not A then B" does not imply "if A then not B"
2021-04-13 20:40:17 <hololeap> in logic
2021-04-13 20:41:07 × srk quits (~sorki@unaffiliated/srk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-13 20:41:26 nut joins (~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-13 20:42:11 <pjb> Contraposition
2021-04-13 20:42:14 <pjb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraposition
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2021-04-13 20:44:23 <hololeap> it sounds like contraposition is: "if A then B" _does_ imply "if not A then not B"
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2021-04-13 20:45:53 <int-e> hololeap: no, for contraposition you need to swap A and B in one of those implications
2021-04-13 20:46:03 geowiesnot joins (~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-13 20:46:19 <hololeap> i know, i'm saying what i asked for is not contraposition, but does it have a name? some fallacy name perhaps?
2021-04-13 20:47:44 jakalx parts (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client")
2021-04-13 20:48:03 <int-e> hololeap: I'd go with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying_the_antecedent
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2021-04-13 20:51:08 <int-e> well, under most circumstances I would just say that it's illogical and not try to name it at all; it seems more useful to point out a counterexample (the implication fails if A and B both true)
2021-04-13 20:51:52 <hololeap> hm, ok. just want to throw an example out there, since i don't see exactly what i'm looking for on that page, although it might be the correct term: "if you don't do your chores, you will die" does not imply "if you do your chores, you will _not_ die"
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2021-04-13 20:52:31 <hololeap> so if someone argues that the former does imply the latter, is that denying the antecedent?
2021-04-13 20:52:46 × amosbird quits (~amosbird@13.75.119.182) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-04-13 20:56:36 <monochrom> hololeap: Under classical logic, "if not A then not B" is the same as "if B then A", and both are the converse of "if A then B".
2021-04-13 20:57:07 <monochrom> Under intuitionistic logic, I think I am not so sure which one is still the converse.
2021-04-13 20:57:16 <monochrom> (but one of them has to be)
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2021-04-13 20:58:50 <monochrom> But also, on top of classical logic, people also add a closed-world or induction meta-rule. Sometimes.
2021-04-13 21:00:11 <monochrom> So when they say "if you don't do this, you'll die", and perhaps adding a few more similar rules, they also have an implicit "these are the only ways to get you to die", like in Prolog and inductive definitions.
2021-04-13 21:00:17 × fiedlr quits (~fiedlr@83.148.33.254) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-13 21:00:51 <dolio> Well, that's a good example, because you're going to die regardless.
2021-04-13 21:01:04 <monochrom> To be sure, when they decide to blackmail you with "if you don't give me $10000 I'll post your pics", yeah, after you give $10000 they will just ask for more.
2021-04-13 21:01:04 <dolio> Just a matter of when.
2021-04-13 21:01:28 <monochrom> Conclusion: Only mathematicians and blackmailers are true clasical logicians. >:)
2021-04-13 21:02:40 <juri_> monochrom: never forget the first rule of crime: never cost anyone more than it would cost to have you killed.
2021-04-13 21:03:11 <monochrom> That's also a rule of good business. >:)
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2021-04-13 21:03:49 <juri_> the two branches are part of the same field.
2021-04-13 21:03:54 <monochrom> The authors of Freakonomics would be proud. >:)
2021-04-13 21:04:07 <koz_> Crime is just business by other means. :P
2021-04-13 21:04:52 × alexm_ quits (~alexm_@161.8.254.229) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-13 21:05:51 <hpc> sufficiently advanced monetization
2021-04-13 21:07:19 <juri_> insufficiently advanced monetization is called 'bitcoin'.
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2021-04-13 21:42:09 <maerwald> are mixed path separators allowed on windows, e.g. "/path/to\\file"?
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2021-04-13 22:00:02 <DigitalKiwi> juri_: are you saying bitcoin should be 1million?
2021-04-13 22:03:48 <int-e> DigitalKiwi: sufficiently advanced monetization requires a lot less electricity
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2021-04-13 22:06:17 <DigitalKiwi> nobody would buy it then though!
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