Logs: liberachat/#xmonad
| 2022-04-08 12:26:23 | <Solid> | pgtk is only really needed when you're on wayland instead of xorg |
| 2022-04-08 12:27:03 | <Drishal[m]> | Solid: its stable even on xorg |
| 2022-04-08 12:27:21 | <Solid> | sure it's stable but it also doesn't buy you anything |
| 2022-04-08 12:27:47 | <Drishal[m]> | Solid: well |
| 2022-04-08 12:27:47 | <Drishal[m]> | it feels a bit more responsive lol |
| 2022-04-08 12:28:55 | <Solid> | placebo, I reckon :P |
| 2022-04-08 12:38:27 | <YusefAslam[m]> | <Drishal[m]> "emacs+gold linker+pgtk+jit" <- what is pgtk |
| 2022-04-08 12:38:30 | <YusefAslam[m]> | and what is aot |
| 2022-04-08 12:41:09 | <Drishal[m]> | YusefAslam[m]: pgtk means pure gtk |
| 2022-04-08 12:41:10 | <YusefAslam[m]> | <abastro[m]> "What about notepad >.>" <- notepad++ is good aswell much better than plain notepad on Windows |
| 2022-04-08 12:41:39 | <abastro[m]> | Well I meant plain notepad |
| 2022-04-08 12:41:40 | <Drishal[m]> | btw whats the xmoand equivalent of |
| 2022-04-08 12:41:40 | <Drishal[m]> | ```python |
| 2022-04-08 12:41:40 | <Drishal[m]> | auto_minimize = False |
| 2022-04-08 12:41:40 | <Drishal[m]> | ``` |
| 2022-04-08 12:42:08 | <Solid> | YusefAslam[m]: PGTK is essentially Wayland support for Emacs |
| 2022-04-08 12:42:38 | <YusefAslam[m]> | Solid: I thought Emacs already supported Wayland? |
| 2022-04-08 12:42:53 | <Solid> | Only through xwayland |
| 2022-04-08 12:43:21 | <YusefAslam[m]> | ohk so like native Wayland support |
| 2022-04-08 12:43:37 | <Solid> | yes |
| 2022-04-08 12:43:48 | <YusefAslam[m]> | pretty decent |
| 2022-04-08 12:44:00 | <YusefAslam[m]> | although I still use Xorg |
| 2022-04-08 12:44:01 | <Solid> | by just going through GTK and side-stepping the whole "we need to do this ourselves" entirely |
| 2022-04-08 12:44:16 | <Drishal[m]> | Solid: and also pure gtk means that the client has full gtk support |
| 2022-04-08 12:44:16 | <Drishal[m]> | means that emacs should hang/stutter a little more less |
| 2022-04-08 12:44:26 | <Drishal[m]> | even on Xorg |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:03 | <Solid> | how would that follow? |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:35 | <YusefAslam[m]> | > <@drishal:matrix.org> and also pure gtk means that the client has full gtk support |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:35 | <YusefAslam[m]> | > means that emacs should hang/stutter a little more less |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:35 | <YusefAslam[m]> | nice |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:37 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘<@’ |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:37 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:37 | <lambdabot> | Variable not in scope: |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:37 | <lambdabot> | means :: t0 -> t1 -> t2 -> (Doc -> Int -> Doc -> Doc) -> aerror: Varia... |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:41 | <geekosaur> | you haven't seen how emacs does things |
| 2022-04-08 12:45:45 | <Solid> | why would GTK be any more responsive than any of the other toolkits that Emacs ships with natively? |
| 2022-04-08 12:46:16 | <geekosaur> | because they're all abused so emacs still keeps full control of the event loop, refreshes, etc. |
| 2022-04-08 12:46:45 | <geekosaur> | "pure gtk" would mean they actually gave control to the toolkit instead of abusing it |
| 2022-04-08 12:46:51 | <pantsu> | Solid: it has good hw acceleration |
| 2022-04-08 12:46:56 | <YusefAslam[m]> | > <@drishal:matrix.org> btw whats the xmoand equivalent of... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/abab80d860ed1fc26a8531c6b8d931665610817b) |
| 2022-04-08 12:46:57 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘<@’ |
| 2022-04-08 12:47:10 | <pantsu> | assuming >=gtk3 |
| 2022-04-08 12:47:33 | <geekosaur> | I didn't understand that question either. minimizing what? |
| 2022-04-08 12:47:36 | <pantsu> | also have pretty efficient drawing |
| 2022-04-08 12:47:40 | <Solid> | geekosaur: yeah it hacks its own event-loop, but that doesn't make it less responsive really |
| 2022-04-08 12:47:58 | <geekosaur> | it's responsive most of the time |
| 2022-04-08 12:48:08 | <Solid> | plus, there has been pretty good progress to support XInput 2.4 in master |
| 2022-04-08 12:48:28 | <Solid> | allowing for things like pixel-scroll-precision-mode |
| 2022-04-08 12:48:42 | <YusefAslam[m]> | pantsu: PGTK has better hardware acceleration? How |
| 2022-04-08 12:48:53 | <geekosaur> | but if you go digging through emacs bug reports for the past two decades you'll find it causes lots of things from glitches to actual failures |
| 2022-04-08 12:50:51 | <abastro[m]> | Emacs hacks event-loop? Wh |
| 2022-04-08 12:51:10 | <abastro[m]> | I heard it is lightweight and editor-done-well, and now I am hearing this |
| 2022-04-08 12:51:22 | <abastro[m]> | But then, I am using VSCode IRL soo |
| 2022-04-08 12:51:55 | <Solid> | Emacs is older than X11 itself |
| 2022-04-08 12:51:59 | <geekosaur> | oh, emacs is done well if you stick to a tty |
| 2022-04-08 12:52:01 | <Solid> | so it's not really that surprising |
| 2022-04-08 12:52:10 | <geekosaur> | GUI support is hacked in on top |
| 2022-04-08 12:52:21 | <abastro[m]> | Oh. |
| 2022-04-08 12:52:44 | <abastro[m]> | Why did I think emacs is essentially gui application |
| 2022-04-08 12:52:44 | <Solid> | and yet it's still much superior to be able to embed pictures in org :P |
| 2022-04-08 12:53:00 | <YusefAslam[m]> | Solid: lol |
| 2022-04-08 12:53:00 | <pantsu> | YusefAslam[m]: gtk has better hw acceleration for drawing than using x11 primitives yes |
| 2022-04-08 12:53:05 | <Solid> | really, you should be using Emacs as a GUI application |
| 2022-04-08 12:53:39 | <geekosaur> | do remember that emacs started out as a set of macros for an older editor (hence its name: Editor MACroS) |
| 2022-04-08 12:53:42 | <YusefAslam[m]> | pantsu: ohk, so all the gui stuff in Emacs is now using GTK? |
| 2022-04-08 12:53:46 | <abastro[m]> | Well but emacs is done well for tty, not GUI |
| 2022-04-08 12:54:22 | <Solid> | abastro[m]: it's a perfectely reasonable GUI program if you don't look into the source too much ;) |
| 2022-04-08 12:54:38 | <geekosaur> | (I've actually used TECO, that older editor. it was … freaky. but powerful enough that Gosling & co. could build emacs on top of it) |
| 2022-04-08 12:54:39 | <abastro[m]> | XD |
| 2022-04-08 12:54:52 | <Solid> | the chances that you're going to hit an actual bug due to its behaviour are very minimal |
| 2022-04-08 12:54:54 | <YusefAslam[m]> | abastro[m]: I basically always use Emacs in GUI mode and Neovim for terminal editing |
| 2022-04-08 12:55:08 | <pantsu> | YusefAslam[m]: and old version of gtk, but yes it does support gtk as the backend now |
| 2022-04-08 12:55:11 | <abastro[m]> | Well tbh I feel GTK (and many other UI programs) are reasonable until source is looked into |
| 2022-04-08 12:55:23 | <pantsu> | (it has a few gui backends) |
| 2022-04-08 12:55:47 | Solid | still happily compiles Emacs with LUCID |
| 2022-04-08 12:55:52 | <geekosaur> | GTK's not bad as UI toolkits go |
| 2022-04-08 12:56:04 | <abastro[m]> | I guess emacs would be whope lot better than Eclipse at least, then |
| 2022-04-08 12:56:05 | <pantsu> | they did finally port to gtk3 too which helped a bit |
| 2022-04-08 12:56:21 | <Solid> | abastro[m]: of course, it's the best editor |
| 2022-04-08 12:56:38 | <abastro[m]> | s/whope/whole/ |
| 2022-04-08 12:56:43 | <YusefAslam[m]> | pantsu: ohk |
| 2022-04-08 12:56:46 | <YusefAslam[m]> | nice I guess |
| 2022-04-08 12:56:51 | <geekosaur> | but they work very differently from tty-based frameworks, which means there's always been a noticeable impedance mismatch between GUI and emacs |
| 2022-04-08 12:57:13 | <abastro[m]> | Hmmm |
| 2022-04-08 12:57:27 | <abastro[m]> | Well it would still be better than VSCode tho |
| 2022-04-08 12:57:44 | pantsu | think that the emacs gui is generally not really implemented well in general |
| 2022-04-08 12:58:09 | <abastro[m]> | (The only reason I am using VSCode is basically since I don't know how to configure editors in general) |
| 2022-04-08 12:58:28 | <pantsu> | lots of legacy/"deprecated" element used etc |
| 2022-04-08 12:58:29 | <abastro[m]> | In the end, it is hard to be worse than Eclipse anyway |
| 2022-04-08 12:58:53 | <pantsu> | no out of the box support for light/darkmode etc |
| 2022-04-08 12:59:33 | <Solid> | the first step is to turn off all of the UI elements anyways :> |
| 2022-04-08 12:59:36 | <abastro[m]> | Well whenever I look into gtk, I want to puke. Perhaps it is just my distaste towards C++, but ehh |
| 2022-04-08 12:59:57 | <pantsu> | abastro[m]: funny since gtk is in C |
| 2022-04-08 13:00:07 | <pantsu> | and the gtkmm bindings are not fantastic :p |
| 2022-04-08 13:00:12 | <abastro[m]> | I should have said C |
| 2022-04-08 13:00:28 | <abastro[m]> | But it does seem like gtk is built on inheritance |
| 2022-04-08 13:00:36 | <pantsu> | it is |
| 2022-04-08 13:00:42 | <abastro[m]> | * said C I guess |
| 2022-04-08 13:00:55 | <abastro[m]> | I dislike whenever inheritance is actually used in C |
| 2022-04-08 13:00:58 | <abastro[m]> | Like wja |
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