Logs: liberachat/#xmonad
| 2021-11-25 14:06:36 | <liskin> | I'm still in the negotiating phase though, which itself happens to be full-time-ish :-/ |
| 2021-11-25 14:09:11 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/01/07/open-source-has-a-funding-problem/ |
| 2021-11-25 14:11:13 | <geekosaur> | ianliu, there have recently been a number of complaints about zoom and xmonad but I don't recall off the top of my head what the resolution was |
| 2021-11-25 14:11:51 | <Solid> | AFAIR it was mostly about screensharing and people missing ewmh |
| 2021-11-25 14:12:22 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | If XMonad somehow got some kind of corporate funding, maybe that would justify the amount of work that goes into it tbh |
| 2021-11-25 14:12:31 | <Solid> | but I'm wondering how this drawing over the screen would cause issues; surely that's done server side and shouldn't affect the client in any way? |
| 2021-11-25 14:12:44 | <ianliu> | I have ewmh, but I don't use a composer. I think thats the problem. Zoom must be creating a transparent window on top of the desktop to allow drawings |
| 2021-11-25 14:12:47 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | * it tbh in my opinion |
| 2021-11-25 14:13:00 | <geekosaur> | thsat's what I would expect, yes |
| 2021-11-25 14:13:06 | <geekosaur> | so try a compositor |
| 2021-11-25 14:13:07 | <Solid> | ah that's a good point yeah |
| 2021-11-25 14:13:28 | <geekosaur> | you can't just draw anywhere on the screen, it'd be clipped to your window |
| 2021-11-25 14:13:59 | <liskin> | FOSSHuman[m]: xmonad is quite a niche thing, I wonder what corporate would be motivated to sponsor that :-/ |
| 2021-11-25 14:14:07 | <ianliu> | I used to use picom, but I was getting a bug where it started flickering, and it happened quite frequenty |
| 2021-11-25 14:14:10 | <Vermoot> | geekosaur, I get that, but some apps are really more appropriate to use as floating, and some even can't really be used as tiled |
| 2021-11-25 14:14:17 | <Vermoot> | To me float is essential in some cases |
| 2021-11-25 14:14:42 | <liskin> | FOSSHuman[m]: there are grants for open source projects from companies and nonprofits and govs and eu and whatnot, but I didn't find any that we could apply for either |
| 2021-11-25 14:14:46 | <geekosaur> | liskin, probably none unless we added some way to do centralized control of configs. I've discussed this before |
| 2021-11-25 14:15:31 | <liskin> | except for stuff like GSoC and the China Summer of Code thing, but that's not sustainability, that's a one time deal |
| 2021-11-25 14:20:53 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | :-| |
| 2021-11-25 14:21:52 | <Solid> | I don't think we need corporate sponsors tbh |
| 2021-11-25 14:24:18 | × | ianliu quits (~ianliu@200-232-249-142.dsl.telesp.net.br) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3) |
| 2021-11-25 14:34:38 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | this idea seems ridiculous, but what if XMonad was paid instead of free, as in, you would have to pay for it to use it.. (ridiculous idea though tbh) |
| 2021-11-25 14:35:32 | <Solid> | no |
| 2021-11-25 14:35:36 | <liskin> | no |
| 2021-11-25 14:36:16 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | k |
| 2021-11-25 14:36:28 | <liskin> | (that can't be done even if we wanted to, because licenses) |
| 2021-11-25 14:39:38 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | k |
| 2021-11-25 14:39:50 | <Solid> | (and we don't even want to :) |
| 2021-11-25 14:40:20 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | k |
| 2021-11-25 14:46:27 | <noex> | i'm honestly surprised there aren't more supporters. i think people just aren't aware of how easy it is to support FOSS projects yet. github now makes it ridiculously easy to just click a button and sponsor stuff. it never used to be that way. i didn't know that existed until a few weeks ago. |
| 2021-11-25 14:55:01 | <noex> | as devs you see it all the time, but as an end user xmonad "just works" so I have had zero reason to go to the github page at all. i just happen to stumble across it and realized sponsoring it was something I could actually do. |
| 2021-11-25 14:55:46 | <liskin> | noex: that's cool! :-) |
| 2021-11-25 15:03:00 | <Vermoot> | uuuh |
| 2021-11-25 15:03:14 | <Vermoot> | I'd like to meet the end user who never had to go to the xmonad github |
| 2021-11-25 15:03:46 | <Vermoot> | I guess I spend more time in the documentation than on github, but still, I'm sure everyone goes there from time to time |
| 2021-11-25 15:05:07 | <Vermoot> | It's not like xmonad is very "for the commonman" |
| 2021-11-25 15:06:16 | → | dschrempf joins (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) |
| 2021-11-25 15:06:51 | <noex> | Vermoot: why would I randomly go to the xmonad github from time to time? do you randomly check the github for every little open source program you use? |
| 2021-11-25 15:07:29 | <Vermoot> | When I need days and days to understand how to configure it perfectly, yeah, it happens :D |
| 2021-11-25 15:07:39 | <Vermoot> | And I don't mean that as a criticism btw |
| 2021-11-25 15:08:15 | <Vermoot> | But github issues are always an rich resource when looking for help, info, etc |
| 2021-11-25 15:09:18 | <Vermoot> | Re-reading myself I come off as a dick, so I'll say I may totally be wrong, but to me xmonad is definitely the kind of project/tool whose target audience *will* visit its github |
| 2021-11-25 15:10:15 | <noex> | you are not wrong, I just think the default config that ships with xmonad is very self-explanatory. i think you can get by without *needing* to check the github for sure. |
| 2021-11-25 15:10:50 | <Vermoot> | oof, I'm gonna have to disagree |
| 2021-11-25 15:11:30 | <Vermoot> | I may be the type of user that wants to customize the config more than the average user, but the default config was definitely not enough for me to know enough to start tinkering |
| 2021-11-25 15:11:50 | × | dschrempf quits (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 15:12:23 | <Vermoot> | I found some good documentation, and I've learned to read the hackage pages well enough, but still |
| 2021-11-25 15:13:23 | <noex> | all i can say is, i added my xmonad.hs to version control almost 10 years ago. i don't know haskell, never looked at hackage, and never looked at the github page. |
| 2021-11-25 15:13:39 | <geekosaur> | the default config is enough *if you know some Haskell* including the tricks the config uses (this is another reason I dislike Data.Default, it's another bit of "magic" everywhere) |
| 2021-11-25 15:13:48 | <geekosaur> | magic is kinda the last thing we need |
| 2021-11-25 15:14:33 | <liskin> | Vermoot: I don't think you come off as a dick, I quite agree with you actually :-) |
| 2021-11-25 15:15:01 | <Vermoot> | Yeah yeah but I feel like my first few messages came off a bit arrogant :D |
| 2021-11-25 15:15:04 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | Anyone know the difference between xmonad.github.io and hackage.haskell.org for documentation?? |
| 2021-11-25 15:15:14 | <liskin> | one can certainly use bare xmonad, but they'd be missing a lot of potential |
| 2021-11-25 15:15:26 | <liskin> | (which they might not need though) |
| 2021-11-25 15:15:56 | <noex> | it's enough to get them started, obviously I would *hope* they start customizing and changing it lol |
| 2021-11-25 15:15:57 | <liskin> | FOSSHuman[m]: xmonad.github.io is generated daily but for already released versions it's probably the same as hackage |
| 2021-11-25 15:16:23 | <liskin> | when you drop the version from the url then you get docs for the latest git master |
| 2021-11-25 15:17:03 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | ohk, thanks! |
| 2021-11-25 15:17:12 | <liskin> | at this particular point in time there's not much difference, though, but a month ago it would matter a lot |
| 2021-11-25 15:19:06 | × | qbt quits (~qbt@user/edun) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2021-11-25 15:26:12 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | https://xmonad.github.io/xmonad-docs/xmonad-contrib/ <- for those that need the link |
| 2021-11-25 15:27:05 | → | atwm joins (~atwm@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) |
| 2021-11-25 15:27:08 | <Solid> | there is the difference that the former now has short description of all of the modules |
| 2021-11-25 15:27:30 | <liskin> | oh that as well! |
| 2021-11-25 15:27:39 | <Solid> | (which are now nowhere to be seen on hackage since we've removed them in X.D.Extending) |
| 2021-11-25 15:28:05 | <Vermoot> | Yeah that's cool. I'm in the process of reading through all of them to get ideas of what to do with my config |
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| 2021-11-25 15:28:27 | × | atwm quits (~atwm@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-11-25 15:28:42 | → | atwm joins (~atwm@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) |
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| 2021-11-25 15:46:37 | → | dschrempf joins (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) |
| 2021-11-25 15:47:23 | <Vermoot> | Is there any intention of better separating layout modules and layout modifier modules? |
| 2021-11-25 15:48:16 | <geekosaur> | there's some discussion of future directions there but it'll be a fairly radical change |
| 2021-11-25 15:48:30 | <geekosaur> | admittedly I don't know what you mean by better separating |
| 2021-11-25 15:48:43 | <Vermoot> | Well |
| 2021-11-25 15:48:50 | <geekosaur> | do you just mean in the module hierarchy, or something more fundamental? |
| 2021-11-25 15:49:12 | <Vermoot> | Without a description I have no way of knowing if X.L.Module is a layout or a modifier |
| 2021-11-25 15:49:18 | <Vermoot> | So yeah, I guess in the hierarcky |
| 2021-11-25 15:49:25 | <Vermoot> | s/k/h |
| 2021-11-25 15:50:07 | <geekosaur> | that'd be a fairly breaking change all by itself, sadly, although we could at least have a deprecation period where modifiers would be in both |
| 2021-11-25 15:50:52 | <geekosaur> | but we also have a bit of a, how do I put this… conflict? because the core provides one modifier (Mirror) |
| 2021-11-25 15:53:47 | <Vermoot> | Is there a kind of a manifest or something that explains the reasoning behind what should be in xmonad and what should be in contrib? |
| 2021-11-25 15:54:05 | <Vermoot> | I couldn't imagine using xmonad without the contrib stuff |
| 2021-11-25 15:54:33 | <geekosaur> | mostly the idea is the core is very small and simple and shouldn't change much |
| 2021-11-25 15:55:52 | <geekosaur> | I personally don't think this works out very well (and note the core had a decent number of changes both before and after the 0.17 release, according to my git pulls) and wonder if we should combine them, then split the result more sensibly because contrib is over 260 modules |
| 2021-11-25 15:56:21 | <Vermoot> | I've just seen this https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/pull/41 |
| 2021-11-25 15:56:35 | <Vermoot> | And now I'm very sad that this never came to be :D |
| 2021-11-25 15:57:26 | <Vermoot> | Oh and now I'm seeing you replied to the accompanying PR on contrib |
| 2021-11-25 15:59:08 | <geekosaur> | "closing as nonresponsive" strongly suggests someone could pick it up again |
| 2021-11-25 15:59:37 | <Vermoot> | Could someone with no haskell skills help it go along by... expressing interest? :D |
| 2021-11-25 16:00:15 | <geekosaur> | it'd encourage others to put some time in it; someone might think "but what if I'm the only one who cares?" but then see some bumps |
| 2021-11-25 16:00:34 | <Vermoot> | Alright then, I'll add a comment |
| 2021-11-25 16:01:00 | <Vermoot> | Although on a closed issue I don't imagine it'll get much visibility |
| 2021-11-25 16:02:05 | <geekosaur> | yeh, that's the one problem I have with just closing inactive issues, you need to query them with is:closed to see if there are any gold nuggets sitting around |
| 2021-11-25 16:02:12 | <geekosaur> | maybe we need an inactive state |
| 2021-11-25 16:02:54 | <geekosaur> | well, I guess closing a "I'm having a problem" with no response makes sense, just not one like this |
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