Logs: liberachat/#xmonad
| 2022-10-15 11:58:10 | <dminuoso> | There's a bunch of things I personally think it does wrong, and for beginners it unnecessarily adds extra complexities. |
| 2022-10-15 11:58:14 | <Phaseditto> | Yeah sounds like there is a reason to that. Gonna take you word for it |
| 2022-10-15 11:58:32 | <dminuoso> | But if you said "you already use stack", I wouldnt try and convince you to stop using it. |
| 2022-10-15 11:58:46 | <Phaseditto> | Nah, my Setup is haskell free for the time being |
| 2022-10-15 11:58:55 | <Phaseditto> | not that i got anything against haskell but it never came up |
| 2022-10-15 12:00:11 | <dminuoso> | Yeah, I write Haskell both at my day job and in my free time. :) |
| 2022-10-15 12:00:42 | <dminuoso> | It's quite refreshing to see non-Haskellers trying and using Xmonad honestly. |
| 2022-10-15 12:00:49 | <dminuoso> | Even if it doesn't act as a gateway drug for most |
| 2022-10-15 12:01:25 | <dminuoso> | xmonad, if anything, rather scares people away from Haskell. |
| 2022-10-15 12:02:22 | <Phaseditto> | I got into Xmonad on a rehab for a damaged finger, only had the laptop of my GF and wanted easier operatibility and less resource consumption. Switched from Gnome to Xmonad and got used to it faster than i thought i would |
| 2022-10-15 12:02:39 | <dminuoso> | My xmonad config looks so much different from the code I write usually |
| 2022-10-15 12:02:46 | <Phaseditto> | Xmonad can be a bit of an oddball when it comes to documentation or rather finding it |
| 2022-10-15 12:02:52 | <dminuoso> | My code I consider readable, my xmonad config not so much :) |
| 2022-10-15 12:02:52 | <Phaseditto> | at least that was the case for me |
| 2022-10-15 12:03:46 | <Phaseditto> | Took a look at GHCup on their website, that might be the least painful way to get everything working and inversely clean in up if i can't get it to work |
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| 2022-10-15 12:04:28 | <dminuoso> | Note that ghcup is both an official installation method, and it is the recommended installation method. |
| 2022-10-15 12:04:38 | <dminuoso> | https://www.haskell.org/downloads/ |
| 2022-10-15 12:05:15 | <Phaseditto> | As long as it allows me to get rid of it as easily as it allows me to install things that's fine with me :D |
| 2022-10-15 12:05:21 | <dminuoso> | Yes it does. |
| 2022-10-15 12:05:30 | <Phaseditto> | Perfect then |
| 2022-10-15 12:05:33 | <dminuoso> | It's just a single `rm -rf` and removing a line from your shell script. |
| 2022-10-15 12:05:50 | <Phaseditto> | so it keeps everything in one folder |
| 2022-10-15 12:05:54 | <dminuoso> | It installs just into a local directory into your home directory, and versions are managed via a simple shell hook |
| 2022-10-15 12:06:23 | <Phaseditto> | cool stuff, preferrable to other "managers" that leave residue of their software all over your system |
| 2022-10-15 12:07:08 | <dminuoso> | If you do try out ghcup, let me know if it works on Void or not (or file a bug report if any problems arise) |
| 2022-10-15 12:07:12 | <dminuoso> | Not sure whether there have been many Void users |
| 2022-10-15 12:07:39 | <dminuoso> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/issues/363 |
| 2022-10-15 12:07:42 | <dminuoso> | Ah it seems like it should work. |
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| 2022-10-15 12:08:39 | <Phaseditto> | From what i can tell the Void crowd doesn't really use haskell because, and i cite "haskell should've been a scripting language. it's extremely hard to make haskell-level generics work across ABI boundaries. I don't blame GHC devs at all refusing to stabilize ABI" |
| 2022-10-15 12:08:51 | <Phaseditto> | Of course that does not speak for all of Void users |
| 2022-10-15 12:09:16 | <Phaseditto> | but generally it does not play well with xbps and as such gets disregarded for most if it needs recompiling from what i understood |
| 2022-10-15 12:09:21 | <dminuoso> | Im not sure what they mean by "haskell-level generics work across ABI boundaries" |
| 2022-10-15 12:09:29 | <Phaseditto> | Neither do i |
| 2022-10-15 12:09:36 | <dminuoso> | But yes, we do not have stable ABIs in GHC. |
| 2022-10-15 12:10:19 | <Phaseditto> | The gist of it is that xbps and Haskell do not mesh well and thus haskell software at best gets delivered as a binary |
| 2022-10-15 12:10:38 | <dminuoso> | It's funny to read a comment that "it should have been a scripting language", considering that we get a high level language with unlimited abstraction potential, with performance that can with some care rival rust or C++... |
| 2022-10-15 12:10:43 | <Phaseditto> | Might not be entirely correct but that is what i understood |
| 2022-10-15 12:11:16 | <Phaseditto> | > It's funny to read a comment that "it should have been a scripting language" .... |
| 2022-10-15 12:11:16 | <Phaseditto> | Wouldn't take that too serious, that was just a random comment in a conversation today |
| 2022-10-15 12:11:17 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:82: error: |
| 2022-10-15 12:11:17 | <lambdabot> | parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) |
| 2022-10-15 12:11:37 | <dminuoso> | Phaseditto: Do they have a policy of requiring dynamic libraries for everything? |
| 2022-10-15 12:11:46 | <dminuoso> | Or strongly favouring them? |
| 2022-10-15 12:11:55 | <Phaseditto> | No idea to be honest ^^' |
| 2022-10-15 12:12:12 | <dminuoso> | But yes, you see this same sort of problem in Arch |
| 2022-10-15 12:12:45 | <dminuoso> | If you tie haskell packages, executables *and* dependent libraries into your package manager, you will have a lot of suffering. |
| 2022-10-15 12:12:57 | <Phaseditto> | Every language and distro has it's kinks and quirks. That's how it is |
| 2022-10-15 12:13:07 | <Phaseditto> | Unless you use Nix and it either works or it doesn'% |
| 2022-10-15 12:13:36 | <dminuoso> | GHC is designed to statically link Haskell libraries |
| 2022-10-15 12:13:52 | <dminuoso> | So if your package manager philosophy does not like this, then yeah there's a conflict of interests at heart. |
| 2022-10-15 12:14:18 | <Phaseditto> | Might be the case, haven't done too much research on that |
| 2022-10-15 12:14:48 | <dminuoso> | (I mean you can do dynamic linking with DHC/cabal/stack...) |
| 2022-10-15 12:15:19 | <dminuoso> | So yeah, if you imagine that xbps is similar to say pacman, the above statements make perfect sense. |
| 2022-10-15 12:15:30 | <Phaseditto> | Wouldn't be too far fetched |
| 2022-10-15 12:15:42 | <Phaseditto> | though arch supports xmonad, funnily enough |
| 2022-10-15 12:15:44 | <dminuoso> | At the same time I might say, forcibly dynamically linking when you *know* the compiler has no stable ABI... |
| 2022-10-15 12:15:47 | <dminuoso> | That's just thickheaded. |
| 2022-10-15 12:15:57 | <dminuoso> | Its almost as if you wanted to prove something else was bad. |
| 2022-10-15 12:16:12 | <dminuoso> | Phaseditto: Yes, and what horrible pain and suffering you will experience if you try and use it via pacman. |
| 2022-10-15 12:16:31 | <Phaseditto> | Used artix for a month.... nah thanks |
| 2022-10-15 12:16:54 | <Phaseditto> | I switched to Void because it can take neglect to a degree where i would say it's stable enough for a user who just needs to get stuff done |
| 2022-10-15 12:17:19 | <Phaseditto> | Can't be bothered to fix my system every time some package breaks |
| 2022-10-15 12:17:47 | <dminuoso> | Phaseditto: Honestly, use ghcup. |
| 2022-10-15 12:18:02 | <Phaseditto> | that was the plan |
| 2022-10-15 12:18:44 | <Phaseditto> | If i can get something working i will post about that here |
| 2022-10-15 12:18:56 | <dminuoso> | Yes, definitely do and highlight me if you can. |
| 2022-10-15 12:19:14 | <Phaseditto> | how do i highlight people in IRC? |
| 2022-10-15 12:19:14 | <dminuoso> | I should probably polish all that I wrote up, and include it on the xmonad wiki somewhere. |
| 2022-10-15 12:19:17 | <dminuoso> | Just write my name |
| 2022-10-15 12:19:26 | <Phaseditto> | dminuoso like that? |
| 2022-10-15 12:19:28 | <dminuoso> | Yes. |
| 2022-10-15 12:19:33 | <Phaseditto> | yup, gonna do that |
| 2022-10-15 12:19:49 | <Phaseditto> | (last time i used IRC in 2006 lol) |
| 2022-10-15 12:19:56 | <dminuoso> | On most clients, like mine, this causes a) a visual marker in the chat buffer, b) a visual marker on the chat buffer where the highlight occured, and set an urgency hint |
| 2022-10-15 12:20:06 | <dminuoso> | So I know someone mentioned my name :) |
| 2022-10-15 12:20:10 | <Phaseditto> | That's good to know |
| 2022-10-15 12:20:22 | <dminuoso> | *visual marker in the buffer list on the buffer where the highlight occured |
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| 2022-10-15 15:30:03 | <Solid> | Phaseditto: the tl;dr is to not install xmonad from Void's repos (it's in removed-packages anyways) and to use stack |
| 2022-10-15 15:30:07 | <Solid> | (or cabal, I guess) |
| 2022-10-15 15:31:24 | <Solid> | If you use glibc then just use ghcup; for musl install the system GHC and adjust the stack.yaml files as required to use that instead (plus some system-ghc: true option in your global stack config) |
| 2022-10-15 15:31:36 | <Solid> | I've been quite happy with a setup like that for a while |
| 2022-10-15 15:32:05 | <Solid> | (I also maintain GHC for Void, so if you have any improvements to suggest feel free to ping me :) |
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| 2022-10-15 16:04:54 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, how exactly is the build script picked up? |
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| 2022-10-15 16:05:23 | <dminuoso> | While I was cleaning up the kitchen, it occured to me that my repo cant just magically work. When xmonad restarts, it must have some knowledge of where to look for the builder script. |
| 2022-10-15 16:07:02 | <geekosaur> | first thing xmonad does is look for xmonad.hs in various places (first checking for envars, then ~/.config/xmonad, then ~/.xmonad). the build script is then expected to be in the same directory |
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