Logs: liberachat/#xmonad
| 2023-07-18 07:41:30 | <xmonadtrack> | xmonad Tony Zorman {GitHub} * v0.17.2-75-gf289b3b: Merge pull request #462 from slotThe/ci/bump (6 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/commit/f289b3b1340b |
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| 2023-07-18 22:06:43 | <u8353v[m]> | <geekosaur> "well, some of them. if it..." <- no - i was told wayland is more secure than X11 |
| 2023-07-18 22:06:43 | <u8353v[m]> | but X11 just works! |
| 2023-07-18 22:06:43 | <u8353v[m]> | i want to know how can i harden it's security? |
| 2023-07-18 22:06:43 | <u8353v[m]> | or this comes down to hardening the OS? |
| 2023-07-18 22:08:18 | <geekosaur> | it needs a major server redesign, its security model is from the 1980s |
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| 2023-07-18 22:10:56 | <geekosaur> | I mean, even the IPC it uses is insecure, AF_UNIX sockets the only security is uid-based filesystem access and INET sockets even less. a modern protocol would take advantage of dbus, polkit, etc. |
| 2023-07-18 22:12:52 | <geekosaur> | any client with any kind of access to the server can observe any event not sent under a server grab, which means passwords can be sniffed by any process |
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| 2023-07-18 22:16:35 | <geekosaur> | if you sit down and redesign X11 to fix its security flaws, multiscreen shortcomings, etc., you'll come out with something looking a lot like wayland-the-protocol |
| 2023-07-18 22:16:53 | <geekosaur> | it's wayland-the-implementation that I don't trust… |
| 2023-07-18 22:19:12 | <geekosaur> | well, I shouldn't say "don't trust", aside from stability. I question what they've done with what they have; it seems like wayland has failed to actually improve on X11 in many areas where it should easily be able to |
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| 2023-07-18 22:22:38 | <geekosaur> | I also have doubts about how far additional security will get you when people don't make use of it |
| 2023-07-18 22:43:55 | <geekosaur> | Don't get me wrong — I'd love to see someone pick up and modernize X11. I just think the result will be Wayland. |
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| 2023-07-19 02:52:33 | <absta[m]> | Oh do you think Wayland protocol of monolithic compositor is inevitable? |
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| 2023-07-19 06:09:23 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2023-07-19 06:09:26 | <geekosaur> | and necessary |
| 2023-07-19 06:10:19 | <geekosaur> | X11's compositor setup is an ugly hack that will always perform horribly and be weirdly unstable |
| 2023-07-19 06:11:06 | <geekosaur> | "the compositor is the display server" is the same thing as "the display server is the compositor" which is how it should have been to begin with |
| 2023-07-19 06:12:00 | <geekosaur> | but with X11's 1980s architecture it isn't possible |
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| 2023-07-19 06:16:02 | <geekosaur> | the only real problem with wayland is it'll take 5-10 years to mature |
| 2023-07-19 06:17:16 | <geekosaur> | (well, the real real problem with it is monolithic gnome being rammed down everyone's throats, but that's rh/gnome, not something required by wayland) |
| 2023-07-19 06:47:50 | <geekosaur> | I suspect what will happen is gnome and maybe kde will use their own monoliths and everyone else will standardize on wlroots or similar; in fact it's already happening |
| 2023-07-19 06:50:10 | <geekosaur> | (and indeed I just checked and KDE seems to be moving to wlroots) |
| 2023-07-19 06:51:28 | <geekosaur> | so in the end wlroots is likely to become a more traditional display server, with the compositor baked in because it needs to be tight up with the low level display drivers to work well |
| 2023-07-19 06:52:19 | <geekosaur> | and KDE, Sway, Enlightenment, and presumably some form of xmonad among others will use it |
| 2023-07-19 07:00:47 | <geekosaur> | what I hope is that standardization will see something usable in manageHooks to come back; currently gnome doesn't use it so nobody implements it |
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| 2023-07-19 10:46:05 | <absta[m]> | I thought gnome went that way because of Wayland, not the other way around ;P |
| 2023-07-19 10:47:08 | <absta[m]> | It makes sense how compositor and display server is tied together, but I am yet to see why window management and various functionalities like taskbar would be tied up to the compositor. Wish wlroots would become a proper compositor! |
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| 2023-07-19 14:04:47 | <geekosaur> | I thought it was |
| 2023-07-19 14:05:11 | <geekosaur> | wlroots is the compositor component of sway but has been adopted by a number of other wayland window managers |
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| 2023-07-19 14:06:22 | <geekosaur> | window management doesn't need to be directly tied to the compositor; it wants better integration than X11 offers but that's because it's not part of the window system core / the display driver |
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| 2023-07-19 15:19:58 | <gar[m]> | Can I open certain sites on opening browser on a particular workspace and login to them using selenium with xmonad |
| 2023-07-19 15:21:34 | <geekosaur> | I would expect yes, although you would need to do some work |
| 2023-07-19 15:22:16 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/webdriver may be of interest |
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| 2023-07-19 18:03:44 | <scrungus> | Does anyone here use window swallowing? I have this issue where when I launch an application through dmenu it swallows whatever terminal window happened to be focused |
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