Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2021-06-21 10:14:51 | <merijn> | kuribas: Right, so that's part of the reason people like sharing their stuff |
| 2021-06-21 10:14:56 | <kuribas> | __monty__: indeed. Maintaining is boring |
| 2021-06-21 10:15:05 | <merijn> | kuribas: And if you take that away from them, why even share your stuff? |
| 2021-06-21 10:15:37 | <kuribas> | merijn: how is taking over a project taking away the pride? |
| 2021-06-21 10:15:49 | <Taneb> | kuribas: ...how isn't it? |
| 2021-06-21 10:16:02 | <merijn> | kuribas: If you're still working on it and someone takes it over, that wouldn't affect you? |
| 2021-06-21 10:16:15 | <merijn> | (against your will) |
| 2021-06-21 10:16:20 | <Taneb> | I'd certainly be upset if someone said that I was doing something I'd created wrong and they were going to take over and do it their way |
| 2021-06-21 10:16:30 | <merijn> | We already have a policy for taking over abandonned packages |
| 2021-06-21 10:16:32 | <kuribas> | merijn: If I am working on it, yes. If I don't have time for it, no. |
| 2021-06-21 10:17:08 | <merijn> | kuribas: And how long before it qualifies as "I don't have time"? |
| 2021-06-21 10:17:23 | <merijn> | kuribas: Like, you don't have time for 6 months before you plan to continue on a project |
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| 2021-06-21 10:17:31 | <merijn> | Should someone be able to take it away? |
| 2021-06-21 10:18:19 | <kuribas> | merijn: in that case, they could fork the project, work on it, and after 6 months I'll incorporate changes I like. |
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| 2021-06-21 10:18:38 | <kuribas> | But if the project is used by many people, maybe even better if someone else just takes it over. |
| 2021-06-21 10:18:47 | <kuribas> | for those months |
| 2021-06-21 10:18:54 | <merijn> | kuribas: And who decides that? |
| 2021-06-21 10:20:13 | <merijn> | If many people/companies rely on a project, well, that sounds like there's a lot of people who could be paying to prioritise that project! |
| 2021-06-21 10:21:32 | <merijn> | "Oh, but it's open source, we shouldn't have to pay! We just want to casually burn out maintainers and get the most of our tragedy of the commons!" |
| 2021-06-21 10:21:48 | <kuribas> | In my projects where I gave other people ownership or co-maintainership, I have not yet been disappointed. |
| 2021-06-21 10:22:02 | <Taneb> | But you chose to give other people ownership or co-maintainership |
| 2021-06-21 10:22:06 | <Taneb> | And you chose who |
| 2021-06-21 10:22:14 | <merijn> | kuribas: That's fine, but then it's *you* in control and deciding if/who gets maintainership |
| 2021-06-21 10:22:24 | <merijn> | kuribas: That's is fundamentally different from having it imposed on you |
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| 2021-06-21 10:22:50 | <kuribas> | merijn: yeah, having it imposed isn't nice. |
| 2021-06-21 10:23:21 | <merijn> | The older I get, the more my opinion on 100% of open source maintainership converges on "fuck you, pay me" |
| 2021-06-21 10:24:01 | <merijn> | Or, I guess "free software" but "free as in puppies" |
| 2021-06-21 10:24:06 | <kuribas> | merijn: that's fair. If I am in a company using haskell, they would have a budget for this stuff. |
| 2021-06-21 10:24:14 | <merijn> | i.e. "You'll have to pay to get it fixed" |
| 2021-06-21 10:24:33 | <merijn> | I don't know who I got that quote from, but I love it more and more :) |
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| 2021-06-21 10:25:09 | <kuribas> | merijn: if I get passed the "haskell is an academic language which is not for practical use, as it doesn't even have libraries for common usecases." |
| 2021-06-21 10:26:22 | <kuribas> | merijn: the only thing a company cares about is that the net benefit is positive. |
| 2021-06-21 10:27:02 | <merijn> | Sure |
| 2021-06-21 10:27:15 | <merijn> | But also, I don't care what companies think about stuff I do |
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| 2021-06-21 10:27:49 | <merijn> | And neither should anyone else who isn't actively being paid to care |
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| 2021-06-21 10:28:40 | <merijn> | anyway, lunch |
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| 2021-06-21 10:40:34 | <ocramz> | kuribas: completely agree with your pov. besides, having a mechanism for adding active maintainers (who are either interested in evolving a library or have the means to ask others do so) is precisely a way for everybody to _avoid_ burnout |
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| 2021-06-21 10:41:18 | <kuribas> | to be clear, I am not advocating forcing projects away from the creators :) |
| 2021-06-21 10:41:38 | <ocramz> | I said adding, in fact |
| 2021-06-21 10:41:59 | <ocramz> | or letting new patches be incorporated, or whatever. Moving the project forward |
| 2021-06-21 10:42:50 | <ocramz> | the "package takeover" process, involving multiple rounds of email, copy-pasted conversations in the mailing lists, months wasted, is one of the most comically inefficient ways of doing this |
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| 2021-06-21 10:44:23 | <kuribas> | ocramz: I would only do this for projects with widespread use. |
| 2021-06-21 10:44:33 | <ocramz> | sure |
| 2021-06-21 10:44:58 | <ocramz> | a voting process! like, if more than N people ask for this, click |
| 2021-06-21 10:45:22 | <ocramz> | surely we don't need sMaRt CoNtRaCtS to pull this shit off |
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| 2021-06-21 10:53:20 | <Taneb> | What's the justification for the "is strictly more specific than" bit of resolving overlapping instances? |
| 2021-06-21 10:54:38 | <__monty__> | Because that gives a unique match? Whereas the = in >= wouldn't? |
| 2021-06-21 10:55:10 | <hpc> | ^ |
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| 2021-06-21 10:55:23 | <hpc> | when you aren't able to resolve the match in some unambiguous way, you get incoherent instances |
| 2021-06-21 10:55:41 | <hpc> | although not quite "unique", but "unambiguous" |
| 2021-06-21 10:56:12 | <hpc> | the specificity requirement gives ghc a way to consistently pick the same instance in similar situationns |
| 2021-06-21 10:59:33 | <Taneb> | Why is it relevant when all-but-one of the candidate instances is marked as overlappable? |
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