Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2021-07-25 19:18:07 | <drakonis> | hullo |
| 2021-07-25 19:18:36 | <DigitalKiwi> | drakonis: here's one now lol |
| 2021-07-25 19:18:39 | <DigitalKiwi> | bah |
| 2021-07-25 19:18:47 | <DigitalKiwi> | davean: ^ |
| 2021-07-25 19:18:50 | <drakonis> | i have been invoked |
| 2021-07-25 19:19:07 | → | tommd joins (~tommd@75-164-130-101.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 2021-07-25 19:19:46 | × | oxide quits (~lambda@user/oxide) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-07-25 19:20:26 | × | acro quits (~acro@user/acro) (Quit: Bye.) |
| 2021-07-25 19:20:26 | × | ouroboros quits (~ouroboros@user/ouroboros) (Quit: Bye.) |
| 2021-07-25 19:20:52 | → | oxide joins (~lambda@user/oxide) |
| 2021-07-25 19:21:00 | <shapr> | o hi DigitalKiwi |
| 2021-07-25 19:22:38 | → | ouroboros joins (~ouroboros@user/ouroboros) |
| 2021-07-25 19:23:08 | → | acro joins (~acro@user/acro) |
| 2021-07-25 19:23:10 | × | Null_A quits (~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:707f:6ddd:516:dcea) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-07-25 19:23:42 | → | burnsidesLlama joins (~burnsides@client-8-87.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2021-07-25 19:24:03 | → | drd joins (~drd@93-39-151-19.ip76.fastwebnet.it) |
| 2021-07-25 19:24:20 | → | Null_A joins (~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:707f:6ddd:516:dcea) |
| 2021-07-25 19:25:38 | <DigitalKiwi> | drakonis: is guix better than nix/pkgs |
| 2021-07-25 19:26:00 | <DigitalKiwi> | davean has been burned by haskell4nix as many have ;_; |
| 2021-07-25 19:26:08 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-07-25 19:26:09 | <drakonis> | hmm, i would that it is an improvement in many regards |
| 2021-07-25 19:26:12 | <drakonis> | say |
| 2021-07-25 19:26:57 | × | ouroboros quits (~ouroboros@user/ouroboros) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-07-25 19:26:57 | × | acro quits (~acro@user/acro) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-07-25 19:27:39 | → | acro joins (~acro@user/acro) |
| 2021-07-25 19:27:42 | <DigitalKiwi> | davean: there you go 100% of people you know use guix say it's an improvement |
| 2021-07-25 19:28:18 | <davean> | Apparently |
| 2021-07-25 19:28:22 | <davean> | Hard to argue with that |
| 2021-07-25 19:28:23 | <drakonis> | basically, one of the things that i can't say i like about nix is that the underlying language doesnt scale as well as a full language |
| 2021-07-25 19:28:26 | <DigitalKiwi> | and Clint knows more guix people than nix people so more people like guix than nix |
| 2021-07-25 19:28:27 | <DigitalKiwi> | qed |
| 2021-07-25 19:28:40 | → | ouroboros joins (~ouroboros@user/ouroboros) |
| 2021-07-25 19:28:42 | Clint | grins. |
| 2021-07-25 19:28:48 | <davean> | drakonis: I said that! |
| 2021-07-25 19:28:52 | <drakonis> | there have been a lot of changes to paper over issues with nixlang handing off a lot of tasks to other languages |
| 2021-07-25 19:29:20 | <drakonis> | guix, being built with guile scheme can avoid these issue |
| 2021-07-25 19:29:22 | <drakonis> | issues |
| 2021-07-25 19:30:05 | <drakonis> | it is entirely a set of libraries in scheme that can be reused for other tasks |
| 2021-07-25 19:30:16 | <drakonis> | so there's a much nicer design |
| 2021-07-25 19:30:58 | × | soft-warm quits (~soft-warm@2600:8801:db01:8f0:9615:1e45:d06d:2d70) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-07-25 19:31:31 | <drakonis> | heck, i think nix would've been significantly nicer if it was done in ocaml back in the day instead of building a whole new thing just for it |
| 2021-07-25 19:33:15 | <drakonis> | this is also a strike against the nix language, not just what the package manager is written with |
| 2021-07-25 19:33:55 | <drakonis> | i'd rather have it built as a dsl of a full language than cooking up a specific language for handling the tasks |
| 2021-07-25 19:34:54 | → | pesada joins (~agua@2804:18:4f:4b5e:1:0:5480:48f9) |
| 2021-07-25 19:35:43 | <davean> | So who's rewriting nix? |
| 2021-07-25 19:36:05 | geekosaur | invokes previously mentioned fable |
| 2021-07-25 19:36:49 | <maerwald> | davean: lol |
| 2021-07-25 19:36:54 | <drakonis> | hmm, there's no nix rewrite except for the descendents |
| 2021-07-25 19:37:02 | × | curiousgay quits (~curiousga@77-120-186-48.kha.volia.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-07-25 19:37:23 | <maerwald> | the biggest problem with nix isn't even the language, imo, but the anarchy of packaging methodologies |
| 2021-07-25 19:37:33 | <davean> | maerwald: also mentioned that! |
| 2021-07-25 19:37:40 | × | agua quits (~agua@191.177.175.57) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-07-25 19:38:19 | <drakonis> | there's a nix/guix descendent written in racket but it is too soon to be competitive with nix/nixos/nixpkgs and guix |
| 2021-07-25 19:38:21 | <DigitalKiwi> | <butterfly meme> is this an echo chamber? |
| 2021-07-25 19:38:32 | <drakonis> | also tell you what |
| 2021-07-25 19:39:11 | <maerwald> | drakonis: IDC what language they use... do they have actual QA and non-broken workflows? |
| 2021-07-25 19:39:22 | <drakonis> | gosh, they sure do |
| 2021-07-25 19:39:29 | <maerwald> | people treat nixpkgs like hackage, upload whatever |
| 2021-07-25 19:39:42 | <drakonis> | guix doesnt have nixpkgs' package churn |
| 2021-07-25 19:39:42 | × | alx741 quits (~alx741@186.178.108.59) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-07-25 19:39:48 | <drakonis> | what's available is generally pretty decent |
| 2021-07-25 19:40:05 | <drakonis> | there isnt four thousand commits a month but what's there has standards |
| 2021-07-25 19:40:06 | <sm> | arkanoid: on a practical level, you can forbid use of Int in your code, and audit your libraries, trying to minimize the use of Int there too. hlint might help here, otherwise it shouldn't be too hard to do yourself |
| 2021-07-25 19:40:25 | <drakonis> | ie: guix doesnt include new langs unless it can successfully bootstrap them all the way to the current release |
| 2021-07-25 19:40:53 | × | leeper quits (leeper@gateway/vpn/nordvpn/leeper) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-07-25 19:41:27 | <sm> | arkanoid: also you might like the new Witch lib which helps convert number types safely |
| 2021-07-25 19:41:48 | <drakonis> | there's also a stronger focus on reproducibility |
| 2021-07-25 19:42:00 | <drakonis> | also serious talk |
| 2021-07-25 19:42:06 | <drakonis> | i don't enjoy using the nix lang |
| 2021-07-25 19:42:12 | <drakonis> | i'd rather write everything in scheme |
| 2021-07-25 19:42:25 | <drakonis> | its simpler and cleaner to get to where i want |
| 2021-07-25 19:43:22 | <DigitalKiwi> | i never even learned nix lang real well which is probably part of my problem ;_; |
| 2021-07-25 19:43:39 | <drakonis> | that's indeed part of the problem |
| 2021-07-25 19:43:53 | <drakonis> | a thing i've been repeating for a little bit is that working with the nix lang is a lot like banging rocks until it works |
| 2021-07-25 19:44:02 | <drakonis> | because everything is so poorly explained |
| 2021-07-25 19:44:54 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://twitter.com/ArchKiwi/status/1249937493308387328?s=20 |
| 2021-07-25 19:45:15 | → | vicfred joins (~vicfred@user/vicfred) |
| 2021-07-25 19:45:35 | <drakonis> | so let me start by posting the most important thing about guix |
| 2021-07-25 19:45:37 | → | hnOsmium0001 joins (uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com) |
| 2021-07-25 19:45:41 | <drakonis> | those docs, they're so good |
| 2021-07-25 19:46:03 | <drakonis> | the cli, the docs, the repo organization |
| 2021-07-25 19:46:06 | <drakonis> | its so clean and minty |
| 2021-07-25 19:46:09 | <DigitalKiwi> | .glirclogs/#haskell/2021-04-29.log:[18:20:18] <DigitalKiwi> i'm not even good at nix lol i just hit shit with hammers until it works |
| 2021-07-25 19:46:11 | <DigitalKiwi> | lolol |
| 2021-07-25 19:46:11 | <drakonis> | fresh and minty |
| 2021-07-25 19:46:25 | <drakonis> | beautiful |
| 2021-07-25 19:46:33 | <drakonis> | https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/devel/en/guix.html |
| 2021-07-25 19:46:34 | × | mrus quits (~mrus@149.28.61.155) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-07-25 19:47:09 | × | burnsidesLlama quits (~burnsides@client-8-87.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-07-25 19:47:14 | <drakonis> | so, one obnoxious nix thing is that there's an severe overuse of wrappers to create execution environments, this has caused nix package interop to be a pain |
| 2021-07-25 19:47:35 | <drakonis> | rather than cleanly designing packages to not require a lot of cheating during builds to function |
| 2021-07-25 19:48:19 | × | drd quits (~drd@93-39-151-19.ip76.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-07-25 19:49:56 | <drakonis> | so you need to install a bunch of ghc packages on nix, you're going to need to invoke haskellpackages.ghcwithpackages |
| 2021-07-25 19:50:14 | <drakonis> | with guix you just include the packages you want, no weird closure drudgery |
| 2021-07-25 19:50:42 | <drakonis> | also no programatically generated packages everywhere lol |
| 2021-07-25 19:50:54 | <drakonis> | you just invoke importers if you need something off hackage |
| 2021-07-25 19:51:12 | <drakonis> | the importers themselves are available by default and arent written by third parties |
| 2021-07-25 19:51:49 | → | burnsidesLlama joins (~burnsides@client-8-87.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) |
| 2021-07-25 19:52:04 | <drakonis> | https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/devel/en/guix.html#Contributing maerwald this is for you |
| 2021-07-25 19:52:25 | <maerwald> | too much work |
All times are in UTC.