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2021-08-09 11:09:36 × Cajun quits (~Cajun@user/cajun) (Quit: Client closed)
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2021-08-09 11:29:35 <tromp> how do i output the unicode character λ from my Haskell code? ghci says 'λ' is '\955' but that comes out as ? on my console
2021-08-09 11:29:56 × lechner quits (~lechner@debian/lechner) (Client Quit)
2021-08-09 11:30:20 <bitdex> /exit/exit
2021-08-09 11:30:22 × bitdex quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2021-08-09 11:30:22 lechner joins (~lechner@debian/lechner)
2021-08-09 11:30:43 <merijn> tromp: Because ghci goes through show
2021-08-09 11:31:01 <merijn> tromp: And show does escaping
2021-08-09 11:31:15 <merijn> Compare lambdabot's behaviour:
2021-08-09 11:31:18 <merijn> > "λ"
2021-08-09 11:31:19 <lambdabot> "\955"
2021-08-09 11:31:21 <merijn> > text "λ"
2021-08-09 11:31:23 <lambdabot> λ
2021-08-09 11:31:47 <tromp> how to put that lambda in a string literal?
2021-08-09 11:31:52 <merijn> Or, locally, compare the result of: 'print "λ"' and 'putStrLn "λ"'
2021-08-09 11:32:05 × lechner quits (~lechner@debian/lechner) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-09 11:32:13 <hpc> if it's coming out as ?, it's not string escaping - are you on windows using cmd.exe or something?
2021-08-09 11:32:18 <merijn> tromp: You can just write it in a string literal, but you gotta make sure you are calling *show* on strings
2021-08-09 11:32:26 <merijn> ah, wait
2021-08-09 11:32:27 <tromp> no, i'm on MacOS
2021-08-09 11:32:31 lechner joins (~lechner@debian/lechner)
2021-08-09 11:32:33 <merijn> tromp: Oh!
2021-08-09 11:32:40 <merijn> tromp: Your locale is fucked
2021-08-09 11:32:53 <merijn> tromp: Because there's no sensible one configured by default in macOS
2021-08-09 11:33:02 × notzmv quits (~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-08-09 11:33:06 <merijn> tromp: Pastebin the output of running "locale" in your shell
2021-08-09 11:33:18 <tromp> so i can cut and paste lambdas fine but not output them from a program??
2021-08-09 11:33:40 <merijn> tromp: You can, when you configure your shell to not be broken :p
2021-08-09 11:33:47 <tromp> LANG="en_US.UTF-8"
2021-08-09 11:33:48 <tromp> LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8"
2021-08-09 11:33:48 <tromp> LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8"
2021-08-09 11:33:48 <tromp> LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8"
2021-08-09 11:33:48 <tromp> LC_MONETARY="en_US.UTF-8"
2021-08-09 11:33:48 <tromp> LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8"
2021-08-09 11:33:49 <tromp> LC_TIME="en_US.UTF-8"
2021-08-09 11:33:49 <tromp> LC_ALL=
2021-08-09 11:34:24 <merijn> On my mac I have "LC_ALL" set to "en_US.UTF-8" too
2021-08-09 11:34:45 <[exa]> tromp: you might want to pastebin the multiline pastes
2021-08-09 11:35:05 <merijn> (and double check in Terminal.app settings under "Profiles -> Advanced" to ensure the text encoding is UTF-8)
2021-08-09 11:35:26 <merijn> tromp: You should try running: export LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8"
2021-08-09 11:35:31 <merijn> and check if it works then
2021-08-09 11:35:55 × lechner quits (~lechner@debian/lechner) (Client Quit)
2021-08-09 11:36:11 <tromp> no, still comes out as ?
2021-08-09 11:36:22 lechner joins (~lechner@debian/lechner)
2021-08-09 11:36:44 <tromp> @exa, i would have for longer pastes but this seems still barely acceptable
2021-08-09 11:37:12 <hpc> maybe LANGUAGE=en_US:en
2021-08-09 11:37:34 <hpc> (i have that on linux)
2021-08-09 11:37:58 fm joins (~fm@user/fm)
2021-08-09 11:38:40 <[exa]> tromp: well yeah, but be careful with that, anything over 2 lines is frowned upon on IRC :]
2021-08-09 11:39:03 <tromp> thanks, will try to keep that in mind...
2021-08-09 11:39:46 <[exa]> like, not a problem now, but when the channel is busy and people start pasting stuff, it becomes really unusuable
2021-08-09 11:42:40 <hpc> maybe it's not the locale, it's a terminal emulator setting?
2021-08-09 11:42:42 Guest4514 joins (~Guest45@2001:8004:2728:3231:22e8:8df9:c65:5ea)
2021-08-09 11:44:00 <merijn> tromp: Did you check the Terminal.app settings like I said?
2021-08-09 11:44:14 <merijn> Also, how are you outputting?
2021-08-09 11:44:19 × Akronymus quits (~Akronymus@85.31.8.181) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-08-09 11:45:08 <tromp> where do i find Profiles?
2021-08-09 11:45:10 burnsidesLlama joins (~burnsides@dhcp168-023.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-09 11:45:10 <timCF> Hello guys! I have a very strange question. I do have a friend of my age ~30 years who is interested in learning programming, but he never was professional software developer. He is asking advise which language to use to learn programming. Of cource we all know that Haskell is the ultimate destination for every software developer - once developer did tried it for real, there is no way back. But I'm
2021-08-09 11:45:16 <timCF> thinking does it make sense for a person to use Haskell as a first programming language? Of course it saves him time to avoid re-learning in the future, but maybe software developer **have to personally** feel absence or sum-types, errors like NullPointerException, "undefined is not a function", callback hells etc to actually **value** Haskell?
2021-08-09 11:45:31 <merijn> timCF: Depends on his goals
2021-08-09 11:46:19 <merijn> timCF: FWIW, I made my girlfriend learn Haskell as first real programming language (she had a very small amount of experience with obscure, proprietary simulation languages from geoscience) and it went fine, imo
2021-08-09 11:46:47 <tromp> i'm doing putString "... \955 ..."
2021-08-09 11:47:24 Akronymus joins (~Akronymus@85.31.8.181)
2021-08-09 11:47:52 <merijn> What is putString?
2021-08-09 11:48:17 × Obo quits (~roberto@70.pool90-171-81.dynamic.orange.es) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-08-09 11:48:39 <tromp> sorry, meant putStrLnm
2021-08-09 11:48:46 <tromp> putStrLn
2021-08-09 11:49:22 <tromp> oh, maybe it's because I do hSetBinaryMode stdout True ?
2021-08-09 11:49:53 <tromp> btw, Terminal Preferences -> Advanced shows Text encoding Unicode (UTF-8)
2021-08-09 11:49:54 <timCF> merijn: He wants to change job from oil industry to more pleasant software development. Salary is important, but he definitely is ready to sacrifice some part of it initially. He said important part is having good courses and job offers. I'm not sure about good Haskell courses for beginners, as well as junior Haskell job offers (have never seen them).
2021-08-09 11:50:00 <merijn> tromp: Eh, yes
2021-08-09 11:50:15 <merijn> hSetBinaryMode sets encoding to char8, according to the docs
2021-08-09 11:50:31 <merijn> tromp: So that will turn all non-ascii into garbage
2021-08-09 11:50:46 <merijn> Not sure what you were expecting :p
2021-08-09 11:50:52 <tromp> ah, let me try without that then
2021-08-09 11:50:52 <hpc> huh, i would have figured that would just affect windows newlines
2021-08-09 11:51:04 <merijn> hpc: "This has the same effect as calling hSetEncoding with char8, together with hSetNewlineMode with noNewlineTranslation."
2021-08-09 11:51:42 <tromp> ok, got my lambdas now!
2021-08-09 11:52:12 <tromp> funny; crypto ppl want lambos; I'm happy just with lambdas :-)
2021-08-09 11:55:14 <tomsmeding> timCF: recommending Haskell as a first programming language to someone who values a career doesn't sound like an amazing idea

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