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Logs: liberachat/#haskell

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2021-07-13 19:30:30 × unclechu quits (~unclechu@2001:470:69fc:105::354) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-07-13 19:30:33 <Profpatsch> I *think* there are some useful lints, but you have to disable a whole lot of “redundant bracket” bullshit before you get anything resembling sanity
2021-07-13 19:30:58 <Profpatsch> It’s kinda useful if you want to forbid functions from being used in favor of wrappers
2021-07-13 19:31:47 chris-the-slurpa joins (~chris@81.96.113.213)
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2021-07-13 19:34:40 <monochrom> I am sympathetic to forking hlint to delete the bad 90%.
2021-07-13 19:35:54 <Hecate> relude's hlint configuration file is indeed a very good example of how you can instrumentalise hlint to enforce conventions/wrappers
2021-07-13 19:35:57 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-07-13 19:39:03 warnz joins (~warnz@2600:1700:77c0:5610:9856:f279:a598:9845)
2021-07-13 19:39:17 <Profpatsch> monochrom: same
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2021-07-13 19:43:22 × warnz quits (~warnz@2600:1700:77c0:5610:9856:f279:a598:9845) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-13 19:43:24 alx741 joins (~alx741@186.178.109.32)
2021-07-13 19:45:10 <maerwald> Hecate: I feel that's excessive
2021-07-13 19:45:35 warnz joins (~warnz@2600:1700:77c0:5610:9856:f279:a598:9845)
2021-07-13 19:45:38 <maerwald> it feels like golfing
2021-07-13 19:45:48 Hanicef joins (~hanicef@90-229-213-50-no68.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-07-13 19:47:20 <maerwald> or maybe it's because I like it when people break the rules...
2021-07-13 19:47:39 <maerwald> so yeah, I have an hlint config too and I encourage people to ignore it
2021-07-13 19:48:18 Pickchea joins (~private@user/pickchea)
2021-07-13 19:49:15 <maerwald> let me write things that are less concise... why is it so bad?
2021-07-13 19:49:37 <Profpatsch> I can understand for functions that are known bad
2021-07-13 19:49:42 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@185.65.135.235) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-07-13 19:49:42 <Profpatsch> e.g. a warning for foldl
2021-07-13 19:49:46 <maerwald> true
2021-07-13 19:49:55 <Profpatsch> or for stuff that is bad complexity
2021-07-13 19:50:24 × warnz quits (~warnz@2600:1700:77c0:5610:9856:f279:a598:9845) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-13 19:50:27 <Profpatsch> you could make an argument for throwing a warning if somebody tries to concat []s
2021-07-13 19:50:45 <Profpatsch> “this is O(n) in every concatenation to you want to continue y/n”
2021-07-13 19:50:49 <maerwald> but most of the interesting stuff needs a more powerful linter, which hlint is not... I think stan can deliver more. Like writing actual context aware rules?
2021-07-13 19:51:04 <monochrom> My personal coding goal is always simplicity and considering the audience. Concision is just a sometimes side effect.
2021-07-13 19:51:05 <Profpatsch> but yeah, hlint doesn’t go very fatr
2021-07-13 19:51:17 <Profpatsch> monochrom: amen brother
2021-07-13 19:51:21 <Profpatsch> *break starts*
2021-07-13 19:51:37 <maerwald> I mean, I've written custom Java rules with SonarQube 8 years ago or so. It's actually amazing.
2021-07-13 19:51:46 × chomwitt quits (~Pitsikoko@2a02:587:dc04:e00:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-13 19:51:49 xff0x joins (~xff0x@2001:1a81:5314:1800:204a:df94:d24b:de67)
2021-07-13 19:52:01 <maerwald> If I compare that with what we have in haskell, it's laughable.
2021-07-13 19:52:04 <monochrom> For a beginner I am very happy to even write "map (\x -> Just x) [1,2,3]" if they like it better.
2021-07-13 19:52:12 × norias quits (~jaredm@c-98-219-195-163.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-07-13 19:52:39 <Profpatsch> I feel like hlint is partially a teaching tool? But not super useful in production by default
2021-07-13 19:52:44 <monochrom> Fun fact: In SML you have to write "\x -> SOME x" for that example, you have no choice.
2021-07-13 19:53:02 <maerwald> Profpatsch: except many companies have it in their CI
2021-07-13 19:53:05 <Profpatsch> where you usually don’t want to Eta reduce for readability’s sake
2021-07-13 19:53:38 <monochrom> err of course it's also "fun x => SOME x" in SML.
2021-07-13 19:54:23 <maerwald> Profpatsch: https://git.io/JCmfu
2021-07-13 19:55:42 Erutuon joins (~Erutuon@user/erutuon)
2021-07-13 19:55:57 <Profpatsch> maerwald: uh, they don’t even disable many things
2021-07-13 19:56:15 <Profpatsch> at least redundant bracket and do
2021-07-13 19:56:17 <Profpatsch> but not even $
2021-07-13 19:56:19 <maerwald> Profpatsch: stuff is sometimes disabled in the source code
2021-07-13 19:56:30 <Profpatsch> would never enforce in CI
2021-07-13 19:56:37 <Profpatsch> this is like these things that check the formatter on CI
2021-07-13 19:56:40 <Profpatsch> even worse
2021-07-13 19:56:45 _73 joins (~user@pool-96-252-123-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-07-13 19:56:45 <davean> Yah I think hlint's rules are insane personally.
2021-07-13 19:56:50 <Profpatsch> Just make everybody set it up in their editor
2021-07-13 19:57:00 <davean> I think hlint clean code is actively harmful
2021-07-13 19:57:06 <Profpatsch> hls has ormolu integration by default
2021-07-13 19:57:08 <Profpatsch> just use that
2021-07-13 19:57:15 Obo joins (~roberto@70.pool90-171-81.dynamic.orange.es)
2021-07-13 19:57:43 <monochrom> And now for the counterpart in llvm and clang: By default, they warn you when you use recursion.
2021-07-13 19:57:48 <davean> Uh, ormolu?
2021-07-13 19:58:01 <maerwald> monochrom: xD
2021-07-13 19:58:02 <Profpatsch> https://github.com/tweag/ormolu
2021-07-13 19:58:11 <Profpatsch> Mark has really thought about this
2021-07-13 19:58:14 <Profpatsch> there is nothing to add
2021-07-13 19:58:21 <monochrom> or perhaps I mean just llvm's C++ style checker.
2021-07-13 19:58:27 <Profpatsch> if you don’t like it, don’t complain, just use it and be happy you never have to indent shit againt
2021-07-13 19:58:30 <Profpatsch> -t
2021-07-13 19:58:31 <davean> Profpatsch: I'm familiar with it and dislike it
2021-07-13 19:58:33 ph88 joins (~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:7e5c:146a:5c4b:109:2ce4)
2021-07-13 19:58:40 <davean> Profpatsch: I'm not google, and theres a reason I'm not google
2021-07-13 19:58:52 <Profpatsch> davean: see, you’re a special flower
2021-07-13 19:58:56 <monochrom> I prefer fourmolu.
2021-07-13 19:58:58 <davean> Profpatsch: no I don't think I am
2021-07-13 19:59:04 <davean> Profpatsch: layout leads reading
2021-07-13 19:59:11 <desophos> is it wrong that i prefer brittany
2021-07-13 19:59:12 lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-07-13 19:59:13 <Profpatsch> your syntax is so important you want people to spend time on it
2021-07-13 19:59:27 <maerwald> I'm questioning that formatters add any value. I used to think so too, but I think it's just all OCD or the belief that consistency matters
2021-07-13 19:59:31 <davean> Profpatsch: No I want to speed understanding of the code
2021-07-13 19:59:45 <davean> layout shows relation
2021-07-13 19:59:46 <Profpatsch> davean: yes, and consistently indented code is the easiest to read
2021-07-13 19:59:50 × ukari quits (~ukari@user/ukari) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-13 19:59:55 <maerwald> I question that
2021-07-13 19:59:56 <davean> Profpatsch: No, semanticly indented code is easier

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