Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2021-08-02 14:33:29 | <boxscape> | (specifically I got the segfault trying https://paste.tomsmeding.com/69xli0tn in ghci) |
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| 2021-08-02 14:38:48 | <Lycurgus> | pavonia, should you read this, the random individual yesterday basically asked if haskell was a chinese room for functions |
| 2021-08-02 14:39:15 | <Lycurgus> | that's the objection |
| 2021-08-02 14:39:27 | <Lycurgus> | and memoization doesn't amount to that |
| 2021-08-02 14:39:27 | <merijn> | Athas: Now I'm imagining him in a Phoenix Wright gif ;) |
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| 2021-08-02 14:41:36 | <amesgen[m]> | Does anybody know of existing attempts to create a fuzzer for (at least parseable) Haskell source code? |
| 2021-08-02 14:41:58 | fendor_ | is now known as fendor |
| 2021-08-02 14:42:36 | <Lycurgus> | fuzzer? is that like an obfuscator? |
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| 2021-08-02 14:43:30 | <amesgen[m]> | basically an `Arbitrary` instance for Haskell source code, not really related to obfuscation |
| 2021-08-02 14:43:45 | <Athas> | It's not difficult to generate parseable source code when you have a grammar. The problem is that the (vast) majority of those programs would not be type correct. |
| 2021-08-02 14:44:11 | <Athas> | It's much easier to do this for C (as in csmith). |
| 2021-08-02 14:44:20 | <amesgen[m]> | type correctness is not that important, I want to fuzz source code formatters |
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| 2021-08-02 14:45:23 | <merijn> | oof |
| 2021-08-02 14:45:28 | <merijn> | RIP your sanity then :p |
| 2021-08-02 14:45:37 | <merijn> | I don't think such a thing exists atm |
| 2021-08-02 14:46:02 | <merijn> | It shouldn't be too hard to invent something, but thinking about testing it gives me nightmares :p |
| 2021-08-02 14:46:04 | <amesgen[m]> | I saw something like this for Scala, and it found a lot of weird errors |
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| 2021-08-02 14:46:22 | Lycurgus | makes a psychological adjustment |
| 2021-08-02 14:47:33 | <nshepperd> | (a chinese room for functions? isn't that everything a computer does?) |
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| 2021-08-02 14:48:58 | <amesgen[m]> | FTR: https://github.com/alexknvl/fuzzball <- the scala (or dotty, rather) fuzzer |
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| 2021-08-02 14:52:56 | <Lycurgus> | i c, so it's an approach alternative to quickcheck oder; another culture clash thing |
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| 2021-08-02 14:54:42 | <Lycurgus> | nshepperd, an abstract conceptual computer perhaps |
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| 2021-08-02 14:56:25 | <Lycurgus> | gedanken versuch vs real thing |
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| 2021-08-02 14:58:50 | <merijn> | Lycurgus: Not really |
| 2021-08-02 14:58:57 | <merijn> | Or maybe |
| 2021-08-02 14:59:30 | <merijn> | Lycurgus: quickcheck happens at the "I'm programming level" where you have access to code |
| 2021-08-02 14:59:47 | <merijn> | fuzzing is more about "throwing random inputs at programs and see if they crash" |
| 2021-08-02 15:00:02 | <merijn> | So it tends to be more black-box |
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| 2021-08-02 15:03:26 | <merijn> | At which point was <$> moved into Prelude? I'm getting a redundant import warning on GHC 8.8 |
| 2021-08-02 15:03:36 | <merijn> | (for Control.Applicative) |
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| 2021-08-02 15:04:04 | <Lycurgus> | merijn, exactly |
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| 2021-08-02 15:04:52 | <merijn> | Lycurgus: quickcheck is generally more grey/white box testing |
| 2021-08-02 15:05:40 | <Lycurgus> | so you think black box hs code testing makes sense? |
| 2021-08-02 15:06:04 | <merijn> | He wants to blackbox test Haskell code formatters |
| 2021-08-02 15:06:04 | <Athas> | merijn: GHC 7.10 implemented the Functor-Applicative-Monad proposal I think, so surely it was before then? |
| 2021-08-02 15:06:13 | phma_ | is now known as phma |
| 2021-08-02 15:06:13 | <merijn> | Athas: No |
| 2021-08-02 15:06:20 | <merijn> | Athas: Because 8.0 compiles fine |
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| 2021-08-02 15:06:30 | <merijn> | I don't support pre-8.0 anyway, so I would've removed it then |
| 2021-08-02 15:06:34 | <geekosaur> | Athas, no, moving it to Prelude happened later |
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| 2021-08-02 15:07:00 | <merijn> | Lycurgus: Whether those Haskell code formatters are written in Haskell was unspecified and not really relevant for purposes of testing them |
| 2021-08-02 15:07:02 | <Athas> | merijn: out of curiosity, what are you hacking on? |
| 2021-08-02 15:07:08 | <geekosaur> | but I don't know exactly when |
| 2021-08-02 15:07:27 | <merijn> | Athas: Finally updating the CI for some of my packages so I can, you know, release 9.0 and 9.2 compatible versions :p |
| 2021-08-02 15:08:18 | <merijn> | I guess it was moved in 8.8, because 8.4 and 8.6 work too >.> |
| 2021-08-02 15:08:31 | <Athas> | Oh right, I like your website for this project: http://www.snet-home.org/ |
| 2021-08-02 15:08:58 | <merijn> | Athas: That package is dead anyway, stopped getting paid for that in 2012 :p |
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| 2021-08-02 15:10:34 | <merijn> | oh, wait |
| 2021-08-02 15:10:46 | <merijn> | Maybe the real problem isn't "<$> moved to Prelude |
| 2021-08-02 15:11:04 | <merijn> | Maybe my real problem is: "When did -Wunused-imports move into -Wall or -Wcompat" |
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| 2021-08-02 15:11:33 | <c_wraith> | I remember unused imports being part of -Wall back in 6.8 |
| 2021-08-02 15:11:52 | <merijn> | ok, so then it *is* the problem of when was <$> moved :p |
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| 2021-08-02 15:14:32 | <Athas> | I think GHC sometimes tweaks the rules for when an import is unused. |
| 2021-08-02 15:14:51 | <Athas> | I was surprised at some point that the property isn't "if this import can be removed and the program still works, then it is redundant". |
| 2021-08-02 15:14:52 | <merijn> | Sure, but I'm pretty sure <$> went into Prelude in recent history |
| 2021-08-02 15:15:29 | <Athas> | Yeah, sometime between 2013 and 2021, because I remember having to import some module to get it when I first started writing Haskell every day. |
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| 2021-08-02 15:17:02 | <Athas> | It was added in base 4.8. |
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| 2021-08-02 15:17:15 | <Athas> | That's 7.10. |
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| 2021-08-02 15:18:59 | <merijn> | Then why do my 8.0-8.6 tests work >.< |
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