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Logs: liberachat/#haskell

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2025-11-14 19:44:07 × jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-14 19:52:21 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-11-14 20:03:32 <EvanR> tracking memory usage in the type system is a possibility. Probably not in haskell which relies heavily on allocating willy nilly
2025-11-14 20:04:12 <EvanR> a simple version would simply not run a program known to need X memory if you can't reserve X memory at startup
2025-11-14 20:05:20 <EvanR> it sounds infeasible until you think about how a web service handler is defacto designed with a whole page of limits and guardrails
2025-11-14 20:06:26 <EvanR> maximum request body, maximum numeric field values, assuming the body can be decoded, which itself has limits baked into the parser
2025-11-14 20:06:31 fp joins (~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--19a.rev.dnainternet.fi)
2025-11-14 20:06:47 <EvanR> maximum number of elements submitted in the request
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2025-11-14 20:13:03 × Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
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2025-11-14 20:16:06 × polykernel quits (~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2025-11-14 20:20:35 × deptype quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:73c2:10ea:4f19:b27b:3bbc) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-11-14 20:29:53 <haskellbridge> <Zemyla> Yeah, it'd definitely be a different language, one more like Rust.
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2025-11-14 20:47:49 × fp quits (~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--19a.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Quit: fp)
2025-11-14 20:47:52 fgarcia causes a thunk
2025-11-14 20:48:48 × humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2025-11-14 20:51:23 tomsmeding forces fgarcia's thunk
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2025-11-14 20:52:58 × humasect_ quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-11-14 20:54:09 <dolio> If you handle an OOM error in pure code, maybe some memory has already been freed so it's no longer a problem. :)
2025-11-14 20:54:37 × humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-11-14 20:55:11 × td_ quits (~td@i53870933.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2025-11-14 20:56:53 <dolio> Anyhow, the point isn't really to catch those kind of exceptions. The point is that some pure-ish code wants to use exceptions, but having them return `Either` or `Maybe` for that is a bad implementation.
2025-11-14 20:57:07 td_ joins (~td@i5387092A.versanet.de)
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2025-11-14 20:57:54 <davean> loonycyborg: We *already lack referential transparency* because of the non-determinism of exceptions.
2025-11-14 20:57:56 × gentauro quits (~gentauro@91.226.144.99) (Changing host)
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2025-11-14 20:58:16 <dolio> Like, if bounds checked array access causes the result to be a Maybe, that's extra bad.
2025-11-14 20:58:28 <davean> We only have referntial transparency in a few respects, not all.
2025-11-14 20:58:48 <davean> Thats litterly how they're a problem
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2025-11-14 21:47:23 × polykernel quits (~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2025-11-14 21:50:56 <c_wraith> We just declare referential transparency only applies to non-bottom values because pure code can't distinguish between bottoms anyway.
2025-11-14 21:53:02 <c_wraith> (and then quietly admit that your Haskell program *can* distinguish between them as soon as you get IO involved, and unsafePerformIO exists, and oh god. What have we done?)
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2025-11-14 22:03:17 <int-e> c_wraith: we've made the language more useful :P
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2025-11-14 22:03:53 <c_wraith> technically it's unsafePerformIO breaking referential transparency there anyway. And that's basically half of the reason it even exists.
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2025-11-14 22:12:41 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> And compiler can never prove that unsafePerformIO doesn't do something that makes everything else lack any sense
2025-11-14 22:12:52 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> with great power comes great responsibility
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