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2021-07-23 14:56:32 <maerwald> do notation is proof that even in functional languages, we think imperatively :p
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2021-07-23 14:58:10 <DigitalKiwi> haskell is the best imperative language ;p
2021-07-23 15:00:33 <c_wraith> I don't really think of do-notation as more imperative than (>>=), but that's just because I've internalized the desugaring
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2021-07-23 15:02:52 <ahri> I have a Haskell webserver and something is going horribly wrong - it clearly has a massive memory leak and ends up being killed by the OS. I've recompiled via "stack build --profile" and I tried some RTS config (via the env var) - these do produce .hp files, and I have converted them to pretty graphs via hp2ps and hp2pretty. All good except that
2021-07-23 15:02:53 × Vajb quits (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-23 15:02:53 <ahri> they only capture the first 10-15 seconds of the run
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2021-07-23 15:03:04 <ahri> unfortunately my massive memory leak is happening later than that (it depends on some interaction from me). what's going on and how can I capture the data I need? is it because it's a multi-threaded server? or because the OS is killing it?
2021-07-23 15:03:45 <c_wraith> I've definitely had .hp files contain data from much more time than that, so it's not some sort of internal limit.
2021-07-23 15:03:58 Vajb joins (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-07-23 15:04:24 <c_wraith> it's probably due to IO buffering
2021-07-23 15:04:46 × sedeki quits (~textual@user/sedeki) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-07-23 15:05:14 <maerwald> ahri: StrictData
2021-07-23 15:05:19 <maerwald> thank me later
2021-07-23 15:05:29 <ahri> I'm not familiar with profiling in GHC, is it possible to force a flush on a regular basis?
2021-07-23 15:06:05 <ahri> maerwald: yeah, I suspect that'll fix it, but I was trying to use this as an opportunity to learn about profiling too :)
2021-07-23 15:06:07 <c_wraith> ugh, StrictData is a band-aid that rarely fixes actual problems but does create a bunch of new ones
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2021-07-23 15:06:14 <c_wraith> why do people like it?
2021-07-23 15:06:30 <maerwald> huh?
2021-07-23 15:06:41 <maerwald> it fixes a lot of problem in production *all the time*
2021-07-23 15:06:52 <maerwald> to the point that many projects enable it unconditinally
2021-07-23 15:06:58 <maerwald> including network packages
2021-07-23 15:07:00 <c_wraith> I've never had it do anything except create problems
2021-07-23 15:07:25 <maerwald> even Snoyman agrees on it
2021-07-23 15:07:37 <maerwald> it is the better default
2021-07-23 15:07:37 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-07-23 15:07:41 <c_wraith> that's a weird use of "even"
2021-07-23 15:07:51 <maerwald> if you need laziness in your data, you can still annotate it
2021-07-23 15:08:00 <c_wraith> That's the problem
2021-07-23 15:08:17 <c_wraith> What if you don't know your users need laziness?
2021-07-23 15:08:19 delYsid joins (~user@84-115-55-45.cable.dynamic.surfer.at)
2021-07-23 15:08:27 <c_wraith> They can't fix your mistake
2021-07-23 15:08:50 <maerwald> provide two APIs?
2021-07-23 15:08:52 <maerwald> easy
2021-07-23 15:08:57 <maerwald> see bytestring etc :)
2021-07-23 15:09:00 <c_wraith> or provide one correct API
2021-07-23 15:09:11 <maerwald> this isn't about correctness
2021-07-23 15:09:30 <DigitalKiwi> clearly not if snoyman agrees on it
2021-07-23 15:09:49 <c_wraith> almost every function has one correct laziness
2021-07-23 15:10:05 <Clint> how do you annotate for laziness?
2021-07-23 15:10:13 <c_wraith> throw a ~ on the field
2021-07-23 15:10:31 <Clint> ah
2021-07-23 15:11:46 lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-07-23 15:11:49 <c_wraith> and yeah... Ever since bytestring added unnecessary strictness and broke one of my programs, I've been rather against making things strict just in case.

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