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2025-10-30 12:44:51 bgt32 joins (~keutoi@106.222.233.20)
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2025-10-30 13:45:56 <kuribas> I did open-source first for a long time, and was shocked about industry.
2025-10-30 13:46:14 <kuribas> It's more about kissing peoples asses and churning out features quick, don't mind quality.
2025-10-30 13:47:12 <kuribas> If you create code that has little bugs, people don't see it, when it has lots of bugs, people go "look how fast this guy solves bugs"!.
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2025-10-30 13:48:32 <kuribas> Sorry, feeling sarcastic today.
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2025-10-30 13:59:23 <TMA> kuribas: it is the same with plumbers... bad plumbers display more effort and are tipped more than competent ones. custom software is a service, performative aspects are therefore much more important there
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2025-10-30 14:13:18 <kuribas> TMA: they do?
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2025-10-30 14:16:38 Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2025-10-30 14:17:31 <kuribas> I suppose I don't know if a plumber did a good job in my home, unless the pipes break some time later.
2025-10-30 14:17:40 <TMA> kuribas: it is the theatrical performance that makes the difference. the client needs to see the worker expending the effort
2025-10-30 14:18:48 <kuribas> right
2025-10-30 14:19:56 <TMA> kuribas: if you don't see the performance, the effect vanishes. I have much lower opinion of the plumber that did some fixing in my mother's flat because I did not see him doing it. my mother has seen him doing it and considered the fix be of higher quality than I would assess
2025-10-30 14:21:08 <TMA> software development service is the same: no bugs == no opportunity to show effort fixing them fast == lower perceived value of the service
2025-10-30 14:21:33 × noctux quits (~noctux@user/noctux) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-30 14:22:17 <tomsmeding> TMA: well spoken
2025-10-30 14:22:34 <lortabac> kuribas: it depends on the company and also which industry you are in
2025-10-30 14:22:37 <TMA> it is like the LLMs spitting out nonsense and then going "good catch, I goofed"
2025-10-30 14:23:23 <tomsmeding> (not sure about that one; that's just annoying)
2025-10-30 14:23:41 <lortabac> I can tell you from experience that there are companies where quality is recognized and valued
2025-10-30 14:23:58 noctux joins (~noctux@user/noctux)
2025-10-30 14:24:34 <tomsmeding> what TMA describes fundamentally comes from a non-knowledgeable person being tasked with assessing value
2025-10-30 14:26:45 <kuribas> sadly management are often non-knowledgeable.
2025-10-30 14:27:00 <kuribas> It least on technical details of the product.
2025-10-30 14:28:25 srazkvt joins (~sarah@user/srazkvt)
2025-10-30 14:28:43 <tomsmeding> and perhaps it is that part that most depends on the company, resulting also in lortabac's experience
2025-10-30 14:30:28 <lortabac> yes, in my experience a manager with technical competency helps a lot
2025-10-30 14:30:43 Googulator12 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-9dbb-a0af-2124-a319.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-30 14:30:55 <lortabac> *competence
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2025-10-30 14:35:19 <TMA> I have experienced managers that were proud of their domain incompetence. Not being "tainted" by understanding the domain was a virtue to them.
2025-10-30 14:36:00 <TMA> Business/economic school graduates, all of them
2025-10-30 14:43:08 foo3 joins (~Square@user/square)
2025-10-30 14:43:25 <kuribas> Or the domain is not software development. The managers understand their domain, but not how to manage a software team.
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2025-10-30 15:08:16 jmcantrell joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell)
2025-10-30 15:08:43 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Who is administering the bridge? Since some time ago I don't get @-ed when someone mentions my name on irc, it stays as regular text. I remember it used to work, did something change?
2025-10-30 15:15:00 × jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-30 15:16:39 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: ^
2025-10-30 15:17:39 <geekosaur> it's possible, I update the docker container weekly and heisenbridge has introduced bugs before
2025-10-30 15:17:45 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-30 15:20:36 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net)
2025-10-30 15:20:50 <geekosaur> although I note that I got pinged Matrix-side by Tom's ping; that may mean it only pings if it's the first thing on the line (which mismatches most but not all IRC clients)
2025-10-30 15:21:47 <geekosaur> Morj: testing
2025-10-30 15:21:54 <tomsmeding> testing for geekosaur
2025-10-30 15:22:23 <geekosaur> that one pinged me too
2025-10-30 15:22:24 <tomsmeding> I think, by default (not sure to what extent that depends on the client being Element), one's nick is recognised on matrix anywhere in a message
2025-10-30 15:22:45 <tomsmeding> to the point that it's even recognised when it occurs in the header of the quote in the plain-text version of a standard reply!
2025-10-30 15:22:53 <geekosaur> yes, but the client has to send mentions as part of the message
2025-10-30 15:22:55 <tomsmeding> which is why replies ping you
2025-10-30 15:23:13 CiaoSen joins (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db)
2025-10-30 15:23:14 <tomsmeding> oh really?
2025-10-30 15:23:17 <tomsmeding> oh _mentions_, yes
2025-10-30 15:23:35 <geekosaur> you can see this if you look at the original message (don't recall how you do this in Element, it's in the right-click menu in Nheko)
2025-10-30 15:23:40 <geekosaur> "view raw message"
2025-10-30 15:24:36 <tomsmeding> TIL
2025-10-30 15:25:19 <tomsmeding> (it's three-dots menu on a message -> view source)

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