Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2025-09-22 17:07:07 | <dminuoso> | All without a single line of comment. |
| 2025-09-22 17:07:14 | <dminuoso> | Of a single empty line to just group code. |
| 2025-09-22 17:07:17 | <davean> | well at least llvm generated vectorized assembly is easier to read than hand-optimize vectorized assembly |
| 2025-09-22 17:07:25 | <inline> | last time it was bookworm of debian, no idea what's going on |
| 2025-09-22 17:07:30 | jmcantrell_ | is now known as jmcantrell |
| 2025-09-22 17:07:35 | <inline> | i now even updated virtualbox |
| 2025-09-22 17:07:54 | <dminuoso> | I dont even know why nix people even botter with CR/LF. |
| 2025-09-22 17:08:00 | <dminuoso> | Its not as if helps readability. |
| 2025-09-22 17:08:05 | <Franciman> | davean: i would like to see a declarative language for nix-style stuff using logic programming paradigm |
| 2025-09-22 17:08:23 | <dminuoso> | Franciman: Oh prolix! |
| 2025-09-22 17:08:28 | <dminuoso> | Lets make that a thing. |
| 2025-09-22 17:08:52 | <Franciman> | maybe we can inject the fixed point shit about making derivation into the classic fixpoint semantics of logic programs? |
| 2025-09-22 17:08:55 | <inline> | seems like when encryption of devices is the case and windows suddenly looses the device (even though it was initially opened via passphrase and ran 2-3 days) |
| 2025-09-22 17:08:58 | <Franciman> | prolix sounds good |
| 2025-09-22 17:09:00 | <dminuoso> | Neither usable nor popular, sounds we could torture a PhD student with it. |
| 2025-09-22 17:09:45 | <Franciman> | lol |
| 2025-09-22 17:09:46 | <dminuoso> | Franciman: All that fixed point logic is just trying very hard to define module/packaging/interface boundaries |
| 2025-09-22 17:09:56 | <dminuoso> | Software developers have been solving these problems for 5 decades. |
| 2025-09-22 17:10:06 | <dminuoso> | s/define/avoid/ |
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| 2025-09-22 17:10:21 | <inline> | i had 3 levels of encryption, the one via bitlocker (it looses the device from time to time) then i had an encryption level from the VBox, then another of the virtual disk with cryptsetup in the OS |
| 2025-09-22 17:10:43 | <Franciman> | dminuoso: you think we would need full prolog power or just a datalog dialect? |
| 2025-09-22 17:11:15 | <inline> | so 1. level flaky, 2. level flaky due to previous or on it's own, 3. level stable |
| 2025-09-22 17:11:19 | <Franciman> | i'm not sure i follow the comment on fixed point logics, wdym dminuoso ? |
| 2025-09-22 17:11:54 | <inline> | and once i installed haskell in there the updates won't ever end.... |
| 2025-09-22 17:11:55 | <dminuoso> | Franciman: So the fixed points that occur in nixpkgs allow for composability of "things" |
| 2025-09-22 17:11:59 | <dminuoso> | In various degrees. |
| 2025-09-22 17:12:16 | <inline> | on almost every update i saw haskell packages... looks like a fast moving thing |
| 2025-09-22 17:12:19 | <dminuoso> | In case of NixOS modules config fixed point, its how modules can talk to each other to figure out whats what |
| 2025-09-22 17:12:20 | <Franciman> | ahh i see |
| 2025-09-22 17:12:28 | <Franciman> | i thought fixpoints was to compute the final derivation |
| 2025-09-22 17:12:47 | <dminuoso> | Sometimes its about a singular derivation |
| 2025-09-22 17:12:49 | <dminuoso> | Sometimes its about config |
| 2025-09-22 17:12:51 | <Franciman> | i see |
| 2025-09-22 17:12:51 | <dminuoso> | Sometimes its about attrsets |
| 2025-09-22 17:13:00 | <dminuoso> | At the end its all done to compose things together |
| 2025-09-22 17:13:13 | <dminuoso> | But its an absurd abstraction because it leaks implementation at every step of the way |
| 2025-09-22 17:13:17 | <dminuoso> | The best example is this: |
| 2025-09-22 17:13:19 | <dminuoso> | https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/26561 |
| 2025-09-22 17:13:28 | <dminuoso> | 8 year old issue about haskellPackages.extend and haskellPackages.override |
| 2025-09-22 17:13:52 | <dminuoso> | Long story short: One is bad, you should probably use the other, and use a bunch of magic undocumented library functions to make it really extensible. |
| 2025-09-22 17:14:19 | <dminuoso> | And its not because the problem domain is complicated: its just that all that fixed point nonsense is very much adhoc. |
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| 2025-09-22 17:16:16 | <Franciman> | i see |
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| 2025-09-22 18:32:34 | <monochrom> | Does it boil down to doing open recursion so you can compose extensions before you tie the knot and close it? |
| 2025-09-22 18:33:26 | <monochrom> | But I'm not surprised that evolved languages (as opposed to intelligently designed) are messes. |
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| 2025-09-22 18:48:09 | <yin> | what's the state of backpack these days? i've just learned about it |
| 2025-09-22 18:48:38 | <monochrom> | I haven't used it for a while. But should be usable with cabal-install. |
| 2025-09-22 18:49:25 | <monochrom> | It should work fine because there is recent blog post using it. (I think you saw that. :) ) |
| 2025-09-22 18:50:00 | <yin> | i read 'Death to Type Classes' |
| 2025-09-22 18:50:16 | monochrom | naïvely trust that every blog authors actually test their code before posting. |
| 2025-09-22 18:50:21 | <monochrom> | Yeah that one. |
| 2025-09-22 18:51:19 | <yin> | most links i find on official sources are dead or insecure |
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| 2025-09-22 18:56:52 | <davean> | which links do you find that are insecure? |
| 2025-09-22 18:58:38 | <yin> | ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Backpack for example |
| 2025-09-22 18:59:09 | <davean> | thats a 403 |
| 2025-09-22 19:00:02 | × | caconym74787 quits (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-09-22 19:00:37 | <davean> | https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Backpack |
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| 2025-09-22 19:02:02 | <yin> | certificate expired a year ago |
| 2025-09-22 19:02:27 | <yin> | that's why i was getting the insecure notice |
| 2025-09-22 19:03:25 | <int-e> | huh. I get a current certificate but it's only for data.gitlab.haskell.org |
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| 2025-09-22 19:04:38 | <int-e> | (So still invalid for ghc.haskell.org) |
| 2025-09-22 19:05:18 | <geekosaur> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/backpack |
| 2025-09-22 19:05:31 | <geekosaur> | the redirects for wiki pages are still messed up |
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