Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2026-04-14 13:15:06 | <mauke> | I did a linear bucket chain of threads connected by MVars, maybe 15 years ago? |
| 2026-04-14 13:15:25 | <mauke> | it definitely went into the 100,000s |
| 2026-04-14 13:15:33 | <mauke> | (number of threads, I mean) |
| 2026-04-14 13:15:41 | <Leary> | gentauro: It's possible, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. I rather suspect it will induce a bunch of GC overhead you don't want, which could probably be avoided by some kind of work queue. |
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| 2026-04-14 13:32:11 | <[exa]> | gentauro: 1M is possible for sure, even more I'd say; the main concern is that at that point I don't really see an engineeringly correct use-case for that |
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| 2026-04-14 13:40:16 | <gentauro> | thx :) |
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| 2026-04-14 13:43:20 | <[exa]> | like, can the usual kernel keep 1M TCP connections open? |
| 2026-04-14 13:44:44 | <gentauro> | [exa]: I recall Don Syme had a MS blog post (his blog is gone since he was "moved" to GitHub Next) |
| 2026-04-14 13:45:04 | <gentauro> | but he showed how F# easily could handle a mil green-threads |
| 2026-04-14 13:45:17 | <gentauro> | and lets not talk Erlang/Elixir |
| 2026-04-14 13:46:14 | <[exa]> | yeah the count of the green threads isn't a big issue, the resource exhaustion that happens if each of the threads starts nibbling is the issue |
| 2026-04-14 13:46:36 | <[exa]> | (who's don syme) |
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| 2026-04-14 13:57:37 | <gentauro> | [exa]: Don Syme was hired by MS to do his PhD thesis on how to "port" Haskell to the .NET platform working together with Cambridge University |
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| 2026-04-14 13:58:01 | <gentauro> | it seems like it didn't went their way, so they ended up portin OCaml to .NET and, the rest is history :) |
| 2026-04-14 13:58:26 | <[exa]> | the rest is F# right? |
| 2026-04-14 13:58:32 | <gentauro> | yeah |
| 2026-04-14 13:58:38 | <[exa]> | oh cool then |
| 2026-04-14 14:00:41 | <gentauro> | some good stuff has actually came out of F# (missing module functors though): computation expressions (monadic syntax), code quoatations (typed and untyped lambda calculus), units of measure (tag primitive types). He also had a brilliant collaborator that made some novel and groundbreaking research: https://tomasp.net/coeffects/ |
| 2026-04-14 14:01:10 | <gentauro> | oh yeah, and the type-providers (they was afterwards mimiced by Idris, David Christensen) |
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| 2026-04-14 14:02:25 | <gentauro> | F# gets a lot of "bad publi" (cos of MS ownership) but it's actually a pretty good language |
| 2026-04-14 14:06:45 | <[exa]> | yeah some folks are actually a little sensitive to the whole .NET blob |
| 2026-04-14 14:06:53 | <[exa]> | (me included tbh) |
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| 2026-04-14 14:07:20 | <[exa]> | (btw lol, I see the blog of tomas :D he's sitting literally in the office next to mine :D :D ) |
| 2026-04-14 14:14:11 | <janus> | this world is too small :O |
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| 2026-04-14 14:18:39 | <__monty__> | Typed and untyped lambda calculus came out of F#? That doesn't sound right. |
| 2026-04-14 14:22:49 | <lortabac> | TIL Alonzo Church invented F# in 1936 |
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| 2026-04-14 14:30:03 | <comerijn> | __monty__: I think you're skipping the pre-parentheses |
| 2026-04-14 14:30:19 | <comerijn> | i.e. "code quotations" (of both typed and untyped lambda calculus) |
| 2026-04-14 14:30:26 | <comerijn> | That still sounds wrong, but less so :p |
| 2026-04-14 14:33:05 | <humasect> | oh..caml? |
| 2026-04-14 14:33:09 | <janus> | gentauro: the most appealing thing to me about F# is that you could make a compiled program for .NET Framework and have it run out of the box on the Windows versions of the last , i dunno, 25 years? |
| 2026-04-14 14:33:27 | <janus> | but every time i mention .NET framework to .NET people they look at me like i am crazy |
| 2026-04-14 14:33:39 | <janus> | but that is like the best thing about microsoft! the backwards compat! |
| 2026-04-14 14:34:12 | <janus> | why do i need .NET core? I really don't get it. |
| 2026-04-14 14:35:28 | <janus> | by iterating super fast and somehow tying the language to new runtime versions, it's like the whole advantage of ' owning the platform' disappears |
| 2026-04-14 14:36:37 | <janus> | then you end up with these massive tooling issues like ghc ecosystem has, where you have to make sure that hls, c library and ghc all line up... |
| 2026-04-14 14:38:05 | <janus> | there is a hackathon in cdmx called 'WeirdUI' and typescript and react are outlawed. because they are too normal |
| 2026-04-14 14:38:36 | <janus> | but they don't mention using Win32 from F#? i'll show them!!! |
| 2026-04-14 14:39:14 | <janus> | bet they've never seen the windows event queue. so weird!!! i must win |
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| 2026-04-14 14:42:26 | <comerijn> | janus: That's cool, but OTOH Microsoft seems hellbent on speedrunning scaring everyone away from windows, so that value is rapidly diminishing :p |
| 2026-04-14 14:43:49 | <janus> | comerijn: i am so nostalgic at this point that i don't even want to recognize what they current microsoft company does |
| 2026-04-14 14:45:07 | <janus> | no matter what Microsoft does, they will never be able to kill ReactOS |
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| 2026-04-14 14:45:46 | <janus> | their UI guidelines from 1995 have probably been entered into the Library of Congress. they can't erase history |
| 2026-04-14 14:45:55 | <comerijn> | At this point switching to Windows 11 seems an absolute no-go and with claims of being an "agentic OS" Windows 12 seems dead-on-arrival, breaking the long lasting cycle "of one sucky, one good" windows release :p |
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| 2026-04-14 14:46:40 | <int-e> | windows 8 was bad, windows 10 was bad, windows 11 was worse... I don't get it ;) |
| 2026-04-14 14:46:44 | <int-e> | (what cycle) |
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| 2026-04-14 14:48:01 | <janus> | with the breakdown of international order, can't i just move to China and sell ReactOS branded as Windows 9000? |
| 2026-04-14 14:48:33 | <comerijn> | int-e: Windows 10 is a good desktop OS. Not for developing on, but for my gaming rig it's perfectly fine |
| 2026-04-14 14:48:40 | <comerijn> | Same for Windows 7 |
| 2026-04-14 14:49:01 | <comerijn> | 11 literally can't even go a month without making explorer unable to start within 5 minutes or bricking the user's C drive |
| 2026-04-14 14:50:27 | <Milan_Vanca> | Have you heard claims that 11 is faster than 10? |
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| 2026-04-14 14:51:10 | <comerijn> | No, and I doubt anyone is saying that given the news from the past 6 months |
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| 2026-04-14 14:53:29 | <int-e> | Milan_Vanca: maybe if you measure users' heart rates? |
| 2026-04-14 14:55:54 | <Milan_Vanca> | I feel you guyz I also must work on win11 pc :D |
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| 2026-04-14 15:04:06 | <comerijn> | I only use windows on my gaming desktop and at the current rate I'd sooner switch to linux than Win 11/12 |
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| 2026-04-14 15:07:02 | <Milan_Vanca> | Anyway what I feel world needs is proper portable GUI framework.. There is lot of UI frameworks none quite good enough. Windows has at least 5 native ui frameworks, on linux there is gtk, qt and who know what else. All of them are lacking compared to html/css. But html/css is tied to text formats and js in browsers.. It would be amazing to have ability to compose UI with html/css like capabilities |
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