Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2025-09-23 09:55:23 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Are we talking about flakes or the nix way in general, that makes security updates unforsable? |
| 2025-09-23 09:55:35 | <dminuoso> | But the second you want any other package you like, you have to wire things together, and just pray that the entire transitive dependency closure does so as well. |
| 2025-09-23 09:55:36 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> *not feasible to force-update |
| 2025-09-23 09:55:40 | <dminuoso> | Morj: Yes, both. |
| 2025-09-23 09:55:54 | <dminuoso> | Outside flakes its completely impossible since there's just hardwired buittins.fetchXXX things. |
| 2025-09-23 09:56:00 | <dminuoso> | With flakes its also fairly impossible |
| 2025-09-23 09:56:35 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> dminuoso no, again, wrong. If you use nix-darwin it doesnt matter what its nixpkgs input is. Since nix-darwin, like home-manager or nixng exposes a function which takes a instance of pkgs and builds your system from that |
| 2025-09-23 09:56:38 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Outside flakes you get a giant blob where everything relies on everything. So if you do a security update you need to rebuild the world. I'm not too familiar with how flakes change this |
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| 2025-09-23 09:56:49 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> But I want to say that a giant blob is not a bad thing |
| 2025-09-23 09:57:15 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> They dont, thats a fundamental nix thing, everything is content addressed/input addressed. If you patch glibc you have to rebuild, thats just a fact |
| 2025-09-23 09:57:27 | <dminuoso> | magic_rb: No thats still wrong. Here's why: flakes generally dont expose callPackage pattern! |
| 2025-09-23 09:57:36 | <dminuoso> | They expose fully ready derivations based on pinned nixpkgs. |
| 2025-09-23 09:57:48 | <dminuoso> | So if you want to include "fancy-program" into your nix-darwin installation.. |
| 2025-09-23 09:57:58 | <dminuoso> | You have to make sure that fancy-program uses your nixpkgs, and not its own. |
| 2025-09-23 09:58:02 | <dminuoso> | What about fancy-programs dependencies? |
| 2025-09-23 09:58:04 | <dminuoso> | Who knwos. |
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| 2025-09-23 09:58:23 | <dminuoso> | Which is why a single package can easily drag 5-6 different nixpkgs instanations with it. |
| 2025-09-23 09:58:29 | <dminuoso> | Outside of nixpkgs at least. |
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| 2025-09-23 09:59:21 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> That's the part I also don't understood about flakes. I suppose there should be a way to deduplicate or override deps? Would be crazy if there isn't |
| 2025-09-23 09:59:33 | <dminuoso> | Morj: There is, you have to do it manually for each input. |
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| 2025-09-23 09:59:43 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> On the other hand, flakes CLI has some other crazy things like that interaction with git |
| 2025-09-23 09:59:43 | <dminuoso> | So its a contract that everyone should obey. |
| 2025-09-23 10:00:08 | <dminuoso> | So you write `inputs.foo.nixpkgs.follows = "nixpkgs";` in your flake |
| 2025-09-23 10:00:16 | <dminuoso> | People generally dont. |
| 2025-09-23 10:00:55 | <dminuoso> | The flaw here is that packages are solved based on hardwired references, not on resolvable labels. |
| 2025-09-23 10:00:57 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Unfortunate. Seems like you can copy a flake description and patch it at least |
| 2025-09-23 10:01:37 | <dminuoso> | Morj: Heh, funny story about that: Nix updates that lock file for you without even asking for confirmation in a few different circumstances. |
| 2025-09-23 10:01:42 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Sometimes the hardwired references are good actually. But I should say they should be guarded with «syntactic salt» and not advertized in the tutorial |
| 2025-09-23 10:01:54 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Wtf |
| 2025-09-23 10:02:01 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Did nodejs devs write this |
| 2025-09-23 10:02:40 | <dminuoso> | The way cabal packages do it is fairly good already. You talk about flags and versions (i.e. constraints) |
| 2025-09-23 10:02:42 | <dminuoso> | Its lockable |
| 2025-09-23 10:02:46 | <dminuoso> | But overridable. |
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| 2025-09-23 10:03:01 | <dminuoso> | So you get tractability, reproducability and ability to specify what it is you need exactly. |
| 2025-09-23 10:03:32 | <jackdk> | Ideally the flake providing the package should provide an overlay to splice it into your config how you wish, but that's very rare. Agree that the inputs.foo.nixpkgs.follows is the "standard" but sadly less common than it should be |
| 2025-09-23 10:05:46 | <dminuoso> | Here I have 22 nixpkgs instantiations in my store for just 4 NixOS deployments. :-) |
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| 2025-09-23 10:12:40 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, is it possible to ask GHC to emit llvm ir and not actually compile that IR to machine code? |
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| 2025-09-23 11:20:58 | <tomsmeding> | lxsameer: `ghc -fllvm -S`? |
| 2025-09-23 11:21:42 | <tomsmeding> | ah no |
| 2025-09-23 11:22:34 | <tomsmeding> | it seems not |
| 2025-09-23 11:22:55 | <tomsmeding> | lxsameer: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/compiler/GHC/Driver/Phases.hs#L60 |
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| 2025-09-23 11:23:53 | <tomsmeding> | `ghc -fllvm -ddump-llvm` dumps LLVM IR, but also proceeds with compilation; you can make it stop at assembly with -S, but not earlier it seems (except for -E, which is too early) |
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