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Logs: liberachat/#haskell

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2021-07-17 09:47:18 → oxide joins (~lambda@user/oxide)
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2021-07-17 10:23:17 <arkanoid> the Error monad link is broken https://wiki.haskell.org/Errormonad.html
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2021-07-17 10:45:22 <kuribas> How does haskell compare to other functional languages? Looking a bit at SML and OCaml, it seems that haskell has far more libraries, and is more practical for real world projects (other than compilers etc).
2021-07-17 10:46:31 <kuribas> Of course scala and clojure are also popular, but I don't consider clojure a real functional language, it's more a lisp derivative. And Scala is mostly multiparadigm, and also complex and overengineerd.
2021-07-17 10:47:48 <arahael> kuribas: I use haskell for most of my private hobby/side projects. It's awesule, but I've used F# and Swift, which are somewhat OCaml-inspired.
2021-07-17 10:48:25 <arahael> kuribas: The biggest most profound difference with Haskell is that it's *lazy*, and has a really really good type system, but in practice that it's lazy makes a big difference to how you use haskell.
2021-07-17 10:48:52 × Vajb quits (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-17 10:48:54 <kuribas> arahael: how much libraries are there for F#? Or does it just use the C# ecosystem?
2021-07-17 10:49:05 <arahael> F# is just another .NET language, really, yeah.
2021-07-17 10:49:17 <arahael> As is C#. :)
2021-07-17 10:49:20 <kuribas> doesn't that mean that most libraries aren't really made for FP?
2021-07-17 10:49:27 → Vajb joins (~Vajb@2001:999:62:1d53:26b1:6c9b:c1ed:9c01)
2021-07-17 10:50:00 <arahael> Kinda. The way F# copes with nulls is interesting. (It assumes there aren't any).
2021-07-17 10:50:41 <kuribas> then how do you test if a function returns null?
2021-07-17 10:51:33 <arahael> kuribas: That's a trap, yeah. In earlier versions, you'd check for it explicitly, and the compiler lets you. But then, the compiler *elides* that check because it thinks better.
2021-07-17 10:51:44 <arahael> Hopefully they've changed that now.
2021-07-17 10:53:33 <arahael> Looks like they've changed it - suggesting instead to use pattern matching. Far better: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/fsharp/language-reference/values/null-values
2021-07-17 10:53:59 <arahael> But anyway, one difference is that Haskell is lazy, so your functions must not have side effects.
2021-07-17 10:54:30 <arahael> And since that practice is so strictly encouraged (otherwise you risk loosing your sanity), that has a flow-on effect to all of haskell's libraries, too.
2021-07-17 10:55:34 <DigitalKiwi> haskell is non-strict
2021-07-17 10:55:52 <DigitalKiwi> https://wiki.haskell.org/Lazy_vs._non-strict
2021-07-17 10:56:01 <arahael> Yeah - more accurate - thanks for that.
2021-07-17 10:56:34 <DigitalKiwi> speaking only for myself haskell programmers are lazy ;)
2021-07-17 10:58:05 <arahael> Hmm. :)
2021-07-17 11:01:36 <DigitalKiwi> and obsesssed with bottoms
2021-07-17 11:02:01 DigitalKiwi drops mic
2021-07-17 11:03:21 <Rembane> I like lazy bottoms and I cannot lie.
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2021-07-17 11:05:07 arahael suddenly realises why bottom is drawn like _|_
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2021-07-17 11:06:04 <DigitalKiwi> dibblego twitter avatar lolol
2021-07-17 11:08:21 <kuribas> arahael: so haskell is the only language that doesn't let you get away coding imperative OO in it?
2021-07-17 11:09:07 <kuribas> Although imperative style is still quite possible in haskell. OO on the other hand is pretty hard.
2021-07-17 11:09:35 <dibblego> DigitalKiwi: that's BUMFISH
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2021-07-17 11:10:01 <DigitalKiwi> is that a new operator
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2021-07-17 11:11:41 <dibblego> no, it's a pre-landing checklist
2021-07-17 11:13:08 <arahael> Heh.
2021-07-17 11:13:36 <arahael> kuribas: If it's subtyping you're referring to, no, I don't think haskell has that.
2021-07-17 11:13:58 <arahael> kuribas: It does have classes and instances, though, but they behave quite differently.
2021-07-17 11:14:06 <kuribas> And that's a good thing...
2021-07-17 11:14:25 arahael thinks so.
2021-07-17 11:14:37 <DigitalKiwi> https://www.parsonsmatt.org/2017/02/17/object_oriented_programming_in_haskell.html
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2021-07-17 11:16:43 <DigitalKiwi> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hoop
2021-07-17 11:16:56 <DigitalKiwi> cue bot "haskell can do that!"
2021-07-17 11:22:23 <dibblego> DigitalKiwi: https://flightscope.gitlab.io/aircraft/checklist/eurofox.pdf page 1, top-right
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2021-07-17 11:58:55 <kuribas> I've been accused of being a haskell lanuage zealot. But actually I am interested in other languages (logic, FP, dependently typed, etc...). It just doesn't seem to be useful to push for other languages that I know less...
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2021-07-17 11:59:21 <kuribas> I could recommend F# instead of haskell, but I don't know it that well, so there is less benefit IMO...
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