Logs: liberachat/#haskell
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| 2026-02-26 12:38:51 | <realBeginner> | Hi, would anyone who knows Python, C, and Haskell be able to answer my question, please? I am an absolute beginner to programming. Which programming language would give me a better foundation and help me learn other things in the long run? |
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| 2026-02-26 12:40:08 | <darkling> | They will all teach you things. They will all teach you different things, in different ways. |
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| 2026-02-26 12:42:15 | <darkling> | Python's probably the easiest of the three to understand. Haskell is the most elegant. C (or Rust) will probably give you a slightly better idea of what's going on down at the CPU level. |
| 2026-02-26 12:43:00 | <realBeginner> | If you were me, you would start with… ? I am very patient |
| 2026-02-26 12:43:25 | <darkling> | Personally, I'd suggest Python. Other opinions are available. :) |
| 2026-02-26 12:43:35 | <oskarw> | realBeginner: I started programming in python as it was introductory language on my university, and I think this is great start |
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| 2026-02-26 12:45:08 | <merijn> | To be the dissent, I think it's a terrible start :p |
| 2026-02-26 12:45:09 | <oskarw> | realBeginner: You can also try scheme after learning python with SICP. SICP is great book about programming in general, and is uses scheme |
| 2026-02-26 12:45:15 | <darkling> | (My personal journey went something like: BASIC, Arm assembler, C, C++, Perl, Java, Python, Erlang, TypeScript, Rust. I've only really dabbled in Haskell.) |
| 2026-02-26 12:45:20 | <merijn> | And empirically, starting with Haskell and going to python is fairly easy :p |
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| 2026-02-26 12:46:33 | <oskarw> | merijn: You have to wait until IO monad to print something on screen. Also, haskell only made sense for me when I learned about state monad, and this is a long way from the start |
| 2026-02-26 12:47:06 | <oskarw> | merijn: Which programming lanugage would you recommend for beginners? |
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| 2026-02-26 12:50:07 | <realBeginner> | Which language has the most logical syntax and processes? I dislike inconsistency. |
| 2026-02-26 12:50:17 | <oskarw> | realBeginner: If you would be more interested in learning how computer works, I can recommend "Turing complete" game on steam https://store.steampowered.com/app/1444480/Turing_Complete/ |
| 2026-02-26 12:50:51 | <oskarw> | realBeginner: Could you explain what do you mean by inconsistency? |
| 2026-02-26 12:51:10 | <__monty__> | I'd say Haskell has the nicer syntax, entirely unbiased opinion, of course. |
| 2026-02-26 12:52:34 | oskarw | loves both haskell and lisp syntax, but he knows that liking lisp syntax on #haskell is tabu |
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| 2026-02-26 12:52:49 | <oskarw> | *taboo |
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| 2026-02-26 12:54:11 | <realBeginner> | English isn’t my native language, and learning its grammar was a nightmare—for example, regular nouns versus irregular nouns when forming plurals.I guess this might apply to computer languages |
| 2026-02-26 12:54:49 | <geekosaur> | dunno about other people, but I find strings not being fully OO in python somewhat confusing and offputting. and its join method always seems backwards to me |
| 2026-02-26 12:55:04 | <darkling> | They're generally much smaller and hence have less room for variation, but there are definitely syntactic/structural warts in places. |
| 2026-02-26 12:55:36 | <oskarw> | geekosaur: I can agree that join method have stupid sytax in python |
| 2026-02-26 12:55:52 | <newmind> | geekosaur: that join feels backwards, i can agree on. treating a string like a primitive type (like an int) though, that makes sense to me |
| 2026-02-26 12:55:55 | <geekosaur> | english doesn't have grammar, it has loose guidelines that it breask on a whim ☺ |
| 2026-02-26 12:56:18 | <merijn> | oskarw: I mean, did you know a language before starting haskell? |
| 2026-02-26 12:56:37 | <merijn> | oskarw: My girlfriend learned haskell as her first language and didn't really struggle |
| 2026-02-26 12:56:55 | <ski> | oskarw : sexps are fine. there was even a Haskell in sexp syntax .. (Liskell) |
| 2026-02-26 12:57:05 | <oskarw> | Yes, I knew python, and a bit R and other languages for data science |
| 2026-02-26 12:57:17 | <merijn> | oskarw: That's a lot of baggage, though |
| 2026-02-26 12:57:17 | <oskarw> | But for general purpose programming, I only knew python |
| 2026-02-26 12:57:27 | <newmind> | merijn: i have the strong suspicion that haskell is actually harder (or at least: more frustrating) to learn if you're already proficient in imperative languages |
| 2026-02-26 12:57:33 | <merijn> | newmind: I agree |
| 2026-02-26 12:58:04 | <oskarw> | You can write functional code in python /s |
| 2026-02-26 12:58:08 | <newmind> | you tend to look for analogs and similarities that just don't quite work, and it's frustrating to get stuck on problems you already know should be easy to solve |
| 2026-02-26 12:58:17 | <darkling> | oskarw: That's where I came to functional programming from. :) |
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| 2026-02-26 12:58:43 | <ski> | oskarw : it's possibly easier to learn Haskell, if you don't know another language yet |
| 2026-02-26 12:58:57 | <darkling> | I realised I was writing things in ever more functional style in my Python, and explicitly went looking for something to learn the details. I landed on Erlang. |
| 2026-02-26 12:59:02 | <newmind> | like: are typeclasses like java/c# interfaces? well.. a bit, yeah, but not quite |
| 2026-02-26 12:59:54 | <oskarw> | Outside of implementation of parsers in applicative, I didn't had problems with haskell, thought this was more about that I didn't know anything about parsers |
| 2026-02-26 13:00:21 | <newmind> | applicative was my real "hard to get my head around" barrier |
| 2026-02-26 13:00:23 | <oskarw> | Maybe because I had mathematical education I didn't have problems with haskell... |
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| 2026-02-26 13:01:58 | <darkling> | Haskell is definitely mathematical catnip. |
| 2026-02-26 13:02:03 | <Leary> | realBeginner: Haskell is certainly the language most concerned with regularity. |
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| 2026-02-26 13:03:30 | <ski> | realBeginner : Lisps (like e.g. Scheme), and Prolog, have quite simple concrete syntax. Haskell is a bit more complicated, but, for the most part, i'd say, fairly regular, few corner cases/exceptions |
| 2026-02-26 13:03:34 | <oskarw> | newmind: I remember spend _a lot of time_ on applicative exercise from cis194 |
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| 2026-02-26 13:05:01 | <oskarw> | realBeginner: Do you have like dream program you want to make? Maybe we can help you more in recommending your programming lanugage based on this answer |
| 2026-02-26 13:05:13 | <newmind> | i think it's the first time you encounter something that really has no sensible analog in procedural/oop programming |
| 2026-02-26 13:06:23 | <oskarw> | merijn: From which source did your girlfriend learned Haskell? |
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