Logs: liberachat/#haskell
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| 2025-09-23 09:39:50 | <sshine> | dminuoso, apparently people really like overlays |
| 2025-09-23 09:41:37 | <dminuoso> | Failed to process, infinite recursion encountered. |
| 2025-09-23 09:42:57 | <sshine> | dminuoso, I've been following some people who blog about alternatives to nixpkgs by trying to make small POCs where they redesign things. I think it's very interesting how many design patterns exist in nixpkgs, which ones are good and which ones are bad. it seems like you only know about them after contributing to nixpkgs extensively. weird kinda programming library that exists in one location, and |
| 2025-09-23 09:43:03 | <sshine> | doesn't get exported. |
| 2025-09-23 09:43:58 | <sshine> | I don't mean bad design patterns, but... legacy iterations of the same things with small variations where there are warts in some of them. I'm not talking dream2nix, just... the same thing has been done over and over in different sections, and it's not exactly the same anywhere. |
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| 2025-09-23 09:45:14 | <dminuoso> | sshine: I think one of the biggest hurdles in nix is actually the self-imposed evaluation model. Since you must be able to evaluate a huge nix expression tree on the spot without compilation, you basically ensure that module boundaries cant sensibly exist. |
| 2025-09-23 09:45:32 | <dminuoso> | So users are forced to reimagine how program modules interact with each other at runtime. |
| 2025-09-23 09:45:46 | <dminuoso> | It's certainly useful for academic reseach to do this. |
| 2025-09-23 09:46:53 | <dminuoso> | Even NixOS modules are not really separated, they are so closely intertwined with the evaluation model. |
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| 2025-09-23 09:47:30 | <dminuoso> | There's certainly some parallels to the evolution of some programming languages like JavaScript. |
| 2025-09-23 09:47:49 | <sshine> | dminuoso, yeah. did you read about nrdxp's ekapkgs? his suggestion is to use git refs to keep track of package versions of each package; https://nrd.sh/blog/atom-anatomy/#atomic-git |
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| 2025-09-23 09:49:55 | <sshine> | I have a repo for my VPS nix configs. and I just tried to remake my nix-darwin setup and thought "I'll just import my VPS nix config as a flake input", and then I get an error because my VPS nix flake has a nixosModule that references the nixvim flake, and my nix-darwin flake doesn't have nixvim as a flake input... so flakes don't inherit each other's inputs transitively. okay. but if I add nixvim as a |
| 2025-09-23 09:50:01 | <sshine> | flake input, apparently that's not exactly enough either. I think I have to use a smarter module system, like flake modules from flake-parts. but I haven't got there yet. |
| 2025-09-23 09:51:03 | <dminuoso> | sshine: Dont get me started on flakes. :( |
| 2025-09-23 09:51:24 | <dminuoso> | The feature that is so unstable that even the RFC process was stopped. |
| 2025-09-23 09:51:49 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> sshine: They do? |
| 2025-09-23 09:51:52 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Fuck irc |
| 2025-09-23 09:52:09 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Flakes do inherit inputs, i mean, not directly |
| 2025-09-23 09:52:31 | <dminuoso> | They inherit inputs *if* you tell them to. |
| 2025-09-23 09:52:36 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Another flake L |
| 2025-09-23 09:52:42 | <dminuoso> | But not transitively unless *everyone* obeys that unwritten contract. |
| 2025-09-23 09:52:47 | <dminuoso> | It's downright silly. |
| 2025-09-23 09:52:56 | <dminuoso> | Just security-wise its a nightmare. |
| 2025-09-23 09:53:18 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I think security-wise listing every input including transitive is sort of a good thing? |
| 2025-09-23 09:53:19 | <dminuoso> | If you get a serious glibc bug, NixOS systems become impossible to patch correctly. |
| 2025-09-23 09:53:37 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Its not silly. It is like this because flakes expect you to not randomly change their inputs, if you want to do that, thats on you |
| 2025-09-23 09:54:07 | <dminuoso> | magic_rb: It means you cant force security updates. Having a constraint/dependency resolver is just far superior. |
| 2025-09-23 09:54:12 | <dminuoso> | Because it gets tractable. |
| 2025-09-23 09:54:22 | <dminuoso> | The nix way is rigid and reproducible, but not tractable. |
| 2025-09-23 09:54:35 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> If nix-darwin is using nixpkgs for anything but lib its doing it wrong |
| 2025-09-23 09:54:40 | <dminuoso> | Though that reproducibility is silly since all you need is just a lock file. |
| 2025-09-23 09:55:01 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> So again, the mechanisms are in place and people are holding it wrong much of the time |
| 2025-09-23 09:55:13 | <dminuoso> | magic_rb: Thats not up to you. If the *only* flake you ever use is github:nixpkgs, then fine. |
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