Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2026-04-10 09:23:18 | <merijn> | Milan_Vanca: If you have to "allow-newer" many things, that's a sign you're using unmaintained/out of date dependencies |
| 2026-04-10 09:23:27 | <merijn> | OR you're on the bleeding edge |
| 2026-04-10 09:24:02 | <Milan_Vanca> | tomsmeding: but can't we say in cabal to cap some max version and thus no need for fork? |
| 2026-04-10 09:24:39 | <merijn> | Milan_Vanca: Some important differences between cabal and python's tooling: 1) cabal creates a DAG of dependencies with version constraints and tries to solve it to find a combination of dependency versions that makes every transitive dependency happy |
| 2026-04-10 09:24:57 | <Milan_Vanca> | merijn: No I use ghc 9.14 and many libs just don't support that yet. |
| 2026-04-10 09:25:00 | <merijn> | that means that if a package claims to work (no upper bound), but doesn't you break everything |
| 2026-04-10 09:25:07 | <merijn> | Milan_Vanca: Right, so that's bleeding edge :p |
| 2026-04-10 09:25:14 | <merijn> | I would not use the latest GHC, tbh |
| 2026-04-10 09:25:26 | <merijn> | I personally always used "second to latest" |
| 2026-04-10 09:27:34 | <merijn> | Milan_Vanca: 2) unlike python's "everything is globally installed" OR "you gotta manually sandbox each project", cabal creates "on-demand" per-project projections of everything installed globally |
| 2026-04-10 09:27:37 | <Milan_Vanca> | merijn: I read your note about building DAG and trying to satisfy all dependencies.. But python must do the same |
| 2026-04-10 09:27:43 | <merijn> | Milan_Vanca: Oh god no |
| 2026-04-10 09:28:00 | <Milan_Vanca> | Okey I mean poetry |
| 2026-04-10 09:28:06 | <merijn> | Milan_Vanca: Most Python tooling just looks at your flat list of dependencies and goes "check, lemme use that" |
| 2026-04-10 09:28:36 | <Milan_Vanca> | you have sandbox and then solve dependencies there... |
| 2026-04-10 09:28:57 | <merijn> | Milan_Vanca: at any rate, unless there is a specific bug blocking you OR new feature you need from the latest GHC I would never recommend using the latest version |
| 2026-04-10 09:29:16 | <merijn> | I'd probably pick 9.10 or 9.12 atm |
| 2026-04-10 09:30:46 | <merijn> | And then all your --allow-newer problems should hopefully disappear |
| 2026-04-10 09:31:13 | <Milan_Vanca> | That is one way granted |
| 2026-04-10 09:31:58 | <gentauro> | tomsmeding: yeah, I road that piece of documentation and I didn't get any wiser … |
| 2026-04-10 09:32:05 | <merijn> | It generally takes 9 months to a year for a new GHC version to percolate through to for the majority of the ecosystem to |
| 2026-04-10 09:32:24 | <merijn> | And there's often not a really big reason to adopt the bleeding edge while that happens |
| 2026-04-10 09:33:04 | <gentauro> | anyway, just renamed the field and no probs :) |
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| 2026-04-10 09:43:41 | <Milan_Vanca> | merijn: Your stance about not using latest version are quite strong. And I kind of agree when one develops mission critical application. But also somebody needs to use and test latest version to iron out all issues. I don't want to believe that "Suitable for use/LTS" is really that buggy. |
| 2026-04-10 09:44:58 | <Milan_Vanca> | But also maybe I like to live on edge...There is also .NET MAUI "production ready" for few years but still unusable... |
| 2026-04-10 09:48:49 | <merijn> | Oh, I'm not saying you shouldn't use/test the latest version. Just be aware that that comes with a lot of --allow-newer overrides until adoption goes wider :p |
| 2026-04-10 09:49:38 | <merijn> | Milan_Vanca: It's not so much about not using latest because of being buggy, but just because dealing with the ecosystem not being instantly ready is too much of a hassle |
| 2026-04-10 09:51:26 | <Milan_Vanca> | merijn: If I "allow-newer" then the "worst" case is that type's won't match and it just won't compile right? Should I also expect runtime bugs? I mean there is always posibility to use "untested" version. |
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| 2026-04-10 09:53:23 | <Milan_Vanca> | Yeah.. runtime bugs are always possible.. I should start writing more tests :D |
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| 2026-04-10 10:02:59 | <Milan_Vanca> | merijn: Anyway when you said not to look up to python packaging. Are there other systems you might recommend? |
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| 2026-04-10 10:03:42 | <merijn> | haskell's :p |
| 2026-04-10 10:03:47 | <merijn> | and maybe Rust? |
| 2026-04-10 10:04:03 | <merijn> | Although rust's stuff is heavily cabal inspired afaik |
| 2026-04-10 10:04:23 | <Milan_Vanca> | really? I didn't know that |
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