Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2021-07-06 07:04:03 | × | pfurla quits (~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2021-07-06 07:07:47 | × | pfurla_ quits (~pfurla@185.108.105.198) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-07-06 07:09:55 | → | mikoto-chan joins (~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 2021-07-06 07:11:38 | → | LukeHoersten joins (~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) |
| 2021-07-06 07:13:24 | → | aman joins (~aman@user/aman) |
| 2021-07-06 07:14:02 | <dminuoso> | Being able to steal was possible before too.. |
| 2021-07-06 07:14:56 | <dminuoso> | It's just that copilot drastically reduces the barrier of creating derivative works, without even knowing about it. Honestly, I'd rather worry the other way around: |
| 2021-07-06 07:15:03 | × | tzh quits (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2021-07-06 07:15:17 | <Franciman> | I will use copilot to create a gplv3 version of stack |
| 2021-07-06 07:15:22 | <dminuoso> | I can see copilot being banned in corporate use everywhere, simply because it makes you liable for licesing violations. |
| 2021-07-06 07:15:27 | <Franciman> | and will try to sue stack in any way possible |
| 2021-07-06 07:15:39 | <dminuoso> | This is not how licensing works. |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:05 | <Franciman> | I just need to implement one of their things before they do |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:09 | <Franciman> | and they get sued |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:14 | <dminuoso> | You dont need copiot for that. |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:17 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:22 | <dminuoso> | You can simply.. you know.. write software and then license it. |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:27 | <Franciman> | ehm |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:36 | <Franciman> | I can't change bsd3 to gplv3 |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:44 | <dminuoso> | And copilot cant help you do this either. |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:50 | <Franciman> | it can |
| 2021-07-06 07:16:53 | <dminuoso> | No it cant. |
| 2021-07-06 07:17:03 | <Franciman> | why |
| 2021-07-06 07:17:09 | <Franciman> | i saw the quake 3 example |
| 2021-07-06 07:17:17 | <Franciman> | of 1/sqrt(x) |
| 2021-07-06 07:17:21 | <dminuoso> | You seem to grossly misunderstand how licensing works. |
| 2021-07-06 07:17:26 | <Franciman> | yeah probably |
| 2021-07-06 07:17:41 | <Franciman> | but the haskell foundation accepted to give up the haskell community to data miners that mine our info for their profit |
| 2021-07-06 07:17:49 | <dminuoso> | If you use copilot, the problem is that it makes *you* liable. |
| 2021-07-06 07:18:21 | × | LukeHoersten quits (~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-07-06 07:18:43 | <Franciman> | I should read copilot's license for the code it produces |
| 2021-07-06 07:18:55 | <dminuoso> | Say you use copilot and write some code that you yourself license with BSD-3. If copilot injects code sourced from GPL licensed code, you're suddenly in the tough spot because the liencese is incompatible |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:06 | <Franciman> | but if I have a tool that gives me lines of code I can lincese as I like |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:06 | <dminuoso> | This is not about what copilot is licensed with |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:11 | <Franciman> | I am not doing derivative work |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:11 | <dminuoso> | but about what *you* release. |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:14 | <Franciman> | I am not modifying code |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:14 | <dminuoso> | Ues you are. |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:16 | <dminuoso> | Yes you are. |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:25 | <Franciman> | is it derivative if I don't know about it? |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:44 | <dminuoso> | Welcome to the legal system. It just takes a lawyer to argue that it is. |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:48 | <dminuoso> | And that's the probelm |
| 2021-07-06 07:19:55 | <dibblego> | applying reason to law |
| 2021-07-06 07:20:13 | <dminuoso> | I will not use copilot for no reason other than I dont want to get sued. |
| 2021-07-06 07:20:24 | fendor_ | is now known as fendor |
| 2021-07-06 07:20:33 | × | Nyeogmi quits (~Nyeogmi@user/nyeogmi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-07-06 07:20:40 | <Franciman> | i will not use github |
| 2021-07-06 07:20:47 | <Franciman> | because it is a damn toilet |
| 2021-07-06 07:21:13 | <dminuoso> | Franciman: Consider this: can you even prove that a) copilot wrote the code and not you, and b) do you think this distinction is really relevant - you as the publisher are probably responsible, you cant move the liability to the tools you use. |
| 2021-07-06 07:21:27 | <dminuoso> | Consider: using ctrl+c/v makes you liable, even though its the computer doing the copying.. |
| 2021-07-06 07:21:36 | <dminuoso> | It just takes a lawyer to make exactly this argument, and convince a judge |
| 2021-07-06 07:21:53 | <Franciman> | i would be liable if I knew that copilot copies code |
| 2021-07-06 07:21:57 | <Franciman> | this is true |
| 2021-07-06 07:21:58 | <Franciman> | and I know it |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:04 | <dminuoso> | This is not how legal systems work. |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:12 | × | pippijn quits (~pippijn@ra.xinutec.org) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:16 | <Franciman> | woot |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:21 | × | ec quits (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:26 | <dminuoso> | ignorantia legis non excusat |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:31 | <dminuoso> | A core principle in most legal systems. |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:34 | × | oxide quits (~lambda@user/oxide) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:35 | <Franciman> | it is different in this case |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:37 | <dminuoso> | No its not. |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:39 | <Franciman> | copyright is about copying |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:39 | <dminuoso> | Ignorantia legis non excusat |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:40 | × | psydroid quits (~psydroid@user/psydroid) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:53 | <dminuoso> | You have to argue this in court, not here. |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:54 | → | ec joins (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) |
| 2021-07-06 07:22:59 | <Franciman> | ok |
| 2021-07-06 07:23:02 | <Franciman> | fuck haskell |
| 2021-07-06 07:23:03 | <Franciman> | fuck haskell foundation |
| 2021-07-06 07:23:05 | <Franciman> | fuck this shithole |
| 2021-07-06 07:23:18 | <Franciman> | bye |
| 2021-07-06 07:23:20 | <keltono> | ok |
| 2021-07-06 07:23:22 | × | maralorn quits (~maralorn@2001:470:69fc:105::251) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-07-06 07:23:26 | ← | Franciman parts (~francesco@openglass.it) (WeeChat 2.3) |
| 2021-07-06 07:23:31 | → | oxide joins (~lambda@user/oxide) |
| 2021-07-06 07:23:52 | <dminuoso> | And chances are, if a team of well paid oracle lawyers sits in front of you, you're ruined either by the 3 years of legal bills trying to fight this, or by punitive damages.. |
| 2021-07-06 07:24:07 | <dminuoso> | So yeah. Not going to use copilot. |
| 2021-07-06 07:24:14 | → | Franciman joins (~francesco@openglass.it) |
| 2021-07-06 07:24:18 | <Franciman> | sorry ppl ^^' |
| 2021-07-06 07:24:29 | <dminuoso> | Franciman: 09:23:52 dminuoso | And chances are, if a team of well paid oracle lawyers sits in front of you, you're ruined either by the 3 years of legal bills trying to fight this, or by punitive damages.. |
| 2021-07-06 07:26:41 | <Franciman> | yeah makes sense |
| 2021-07-06 07:26:50 | <Franciman> | so basically we don't need to worry |
| 2021-07-06 07:26:59 | <Axman6> | O I thought we were done with this nonsense |
| 2021-07-06 07:28:50 | <dminuoso> | The potential damage copilot will do to some companies and even peopple is going to be interesting. It'll probably take a few years, but the copyright trolls will come. |
| 2021-07-06 07:29:02 | <Axman6> | Yo're reminding me of the nonsense people say about patents, the amount of patently (heh) incorrect opinions about IP law on the internet is astounding |
| 2021-07-06 07:29:18 | <dminuoso> | Axman6: Me? |
| 2021-07-06 07:29:26 | <Franciman> | nah |
| 2021-07-06 07:29:32 | <Franciman> | they refer about me |
| 2021-07-06 07:30:16 | <Franciman> | but still github is a closed toilet. You never know what you find in a closed toilet |
| 2021-07-06 07:30:24 | <Franciman> | but most of the time it stinks a lot |
| 2021-07-06 07:30:25 | → | LukeHoersten joins (~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) |
| 2021-07-06 07:30:31 | <dminuoso> | "intellectual property" is quite the term though. The proprietary software lobby has coined a really non-sense term there.. |
| 2021-07-06 07:31:10 | <Franciman> | I laugh when snoyman says that github is the most beginner friendly solution, because it is what everybody uses, so it is familiar |
| 2021-07-06 07:31:12 | <Franciman> | and he created stack |
| 2021-07-06 07:31:20 | <Franciman> | with a radically different interface from cabal |
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