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2026-01-25 21:35:11 <[exa]> but we've got our cozy haskell null!!!
2026-01-25 21:35:41 <tomsmeding> [exa]: let me invert the question: why are you parsing a ()?
2026-01-25 21:36:04 geekosaur wonders if it's to play a bit more nicely in ghci with ExtendedDefaultRules or something like that
2026-01-25 21:36:19 <[exa]> I wanted to nicely match if a value is empty, looked pretty much okay that way
2026-01-25 21:37:09 <geekosaur> tbh that actually feels a bit wrong to me, since null is in-band in JSON
2026-01-25 21:38:30 <[exa]> oh well look at that https://github.com/haskell/aeson/issues/788#issuecomment-939328524
2026-01-25 21:38:58 <[exa]> the philosophical reason is: in js everything can be null
2026-01-25 21:39:24 <monochrom> Does the empty object {} exist in JSON? I would be OK with that becoming () in Haskell. But then my idea still implies that parse errors still exist, e.g., parsing "5" to () should be an error.
2026-01-25 21:40:35 <geekosaur> that's what I meant by "in-band"
2026-01-25 21:40:50 <geekosaur> in Haskell it's a distinct type, not a distinct value inhabiting every type
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2026-01-25 21:57:57 <tomsmeding> do I really have to reach into ghc-internal to get the UserInterrupt exception, for detecting if someone ^C'd me?
2026-01-25 21:58:30 <tomsmeding> ah no I'm stupid, ignore, it's AsyncException in base
2026-01-25 22:07:16 <monochrom> :)
2026-01-25 22:07:58 <monochrom> But beware that it is only delivered to the main thread.
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2026-01-25 22:14:00 <mjacob> What are possible applications of cycles in functional reactive programming? I know that many frameworks forbid it unless there is a delay in each cycle. But it is hard to me to think of an example where cycles are useful (with or without delay).
2026-01-25 22:15:35 <tomsmeding> a clock? (disclaimer: have never used FRP)
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2026-01-25 22:30:45 <mjacob> tomsmeding: Where is the cycle in this example?
2026-01-25 22:31:05 <tomsmeding> the update to the time triggers an update to the time again, after a delay?
2026-01-25 22:31:14 <tomsmeding> as I said, I dunno, maybe this is nonsense :)
2026-01-25 22:32:35 <EvanR> early versions of FRP exploited recursive definitions (why you might be thinking of as cycles?) to implement some sort of state
2026-01-25 22:33:07 <geekosaur> I wasn't using FRP but a PSQ for a simulation, and one of the events was a status report that triggered every so often in simulated time and rescheduled itself for later
2026-01-25 22:33:08 <EvanR> but whether that counts as some sort of cycle, might depend on your concept of the underlying implementation
2026-01-25 22:33:25 <EvanR> e.g. interpreting recursion doesn't necessarily need anything cyclic
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2026-01-25 22:34:01 <EvanR> in arrow FRP you wouldn't use recursion but ArrowLoop
2026-01-25 22:35:27 <geekosaur> plus most other events scheduled other events for later, since it was a population simulator so it was simulating various life events
2026-01-25 22:38:36 <monochrom> People invent all sorts of "plain/simple English" words to avoid saying "recursion". :)
2026-01-25 22:41:08 <monochrom> I once posed a homework question that defined infinite streams of Bool to represent timing diagrams of digital circuits, then had students code up a flip flop using a feedback loop. (One more "plain English" word for recursion!)
2026-01-25 22:41:59 <tomsmeding> monochrom: conversely, functional programmers call everything recursion that we have more precise words for :)
2026-01-25 22:42:05 <monochrom> (It had to go through a delay. I also had a "part (b)" in which the students had to show what would go wrong in Haskell if there were no delay.)
2026-01-25 22:42:36 <monochrom> Oh yeah all of us should just say "least fixed point" and be done with it!
2026-01-25 22:43:32 <monochrom> But we are worse than calling everything "recursion" aren't we? We call everything "function".
2026-01-25 22:44:23 <monochrom> https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/fp-patterns-buildstufflt/41936137#13 >:)
2026-01-25 22:44:26 <tomsmeding> our functions either recurse or traverse
2026-01-25 22:58:41 <EvanR> oop, everything's an object. FP, everything's a function!
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