Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2021-07-29 21:09:14 | <maerwald> | sm: also, earlier you asked about goals: https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs#design-goals |
| 2021-07-29 21:09:23 | <sm> | sorry to leave abruptly last night, it was 2am here and we were not getting anywhere |
| 2021-07-29 21:09:46 | <sm> | As with the reddit answer, I think more work is needed to make this more compelling/clear. And I understand, it's not easy. |
| 2021-07-29 21:10:02 | <maerwald> | what needs to be more clear? |
| 2021-07-29 21:10:59 | → | wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-07-29 21:14:18 | <sm> | the answer to "Why should I use ghcup over stack?", eg. The answer doesn't quite answer the question, as in eg "because X" or "you shouldn't" or "it's a wrong question because Y". I feel we have a lot of docs like this in the haskell world which don't quite cut to the point, I have lots myself so I'm interested in this kind of writing. As always, just IMHO and you may disagree with any of it. |
| 2021-07-29 21:15:04 | <maerwald[m]> | The answer depends on your needs |
| 2021-07-29 21:15:12 | <sm> | yes, indeed |
| 2021-07-29 21:15:28 | <sm> | exactly so |
| 2021-07-29 21:15:42 | → | agua joins (~agua@2804:18:4f:b157:1:0:6976:119) |
| 2021-07-29 21:16:33 | <maerwald[m]> | That's why I don't answer, but explain |
| 2021-07-29 21:17:11 | <sm> | I'm particularly interested in the needs of newcomers/folks not well versed in the history of haskell tools. Since they are a much bigger group and how we answer them affects haskell's future |
| 2021-07-29 21:17:47 | <sm> | I think our explanations are often not the kind they need |
| 2021-07-29 21:19:12 | <maerwald[m]> | They are a much bigger group? |
| 2021-07-29 21:19:39 | <sm> | and I think the effort of finding a simple clear answer pays off big time. If we can't provide one, that's valuable information |
| 2021-07-29 21:19:44 | × | pesada quits (~agua@2804:14c:8793:8e2f:3944:8017:7f63:8e28) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-07-29 21:20:01 | <maerwald[m]> | I'd guess the question doesn't come from a newcomer, because it already contains misconceptions |
| 2021-07-29 21:20:11 | <sm> | "I'm new to this. Why should I choose it over stack?". I take it at face value. |
| 2021-07-29 21:21:05 | <maerwald[m]> | "New to ghcup" or "new to haskell"? |
| 2021-07-29 21:21:22 | × | neceve quits (~quassel@2a02:c7f:607e:d600:f762:20dd:304e:4b1f) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-07-29 21:21:29 | <sm> | either, both |
| 2021-07-29 21:21:42 | <maerwald[m]> | No idea |
| 2021-07-29 21:22:17 | <maerwald[m]> | Anyway, that seems more like a discussion for a download page |
| 2021-07-29 21:24:04 | → | sheepduck joins (~sheepduck@user/sheepduck) |
| 2021-07-29 21:24:22 | <maerwald[m]> | I don't think "you should use my tool, because" is something I want in any of my readmes |
| 2021-07-29 21:24:40 | × | bruceleewees quits (~bruceleew@83.24.236.64.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-07-29 21:25:19 | <sm> | you can answer the question without saying that, as in the examples I gave above |
| 2021-07-29 21:25:27 | → | bruceleewees joins (~bruceleew@83.24.236.64.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) |
| 2021-07-29 21:26:06 | <maerwald[m]> | I think the question is answered |
| 2021-07-29 21:26:24 | × | gentauro quits (~gentauro@user/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-07-29 21:26:40 | <motle> | can you do my code for me? |
| 2021-07-29 21:27:24 | → | gentauro joins (~gentauro@user/gentauro) |
| 2021-07-29 21:27:29 | <maerwald[m]> | motle: what do you pay? |
| 2021-07-29 21:27:38 | <motle> | salad? |
| 2021-07-29 21:28:01 | <maerwald[m]> | With mozzarella? |
| 2021-07-29 21:28:10 | <motle> | youd have to, you know, bring your own |
| 2021-07-29 21:28:38 | <motle> | dont try just salad, cheapskates |
| 2021-07-29 21:28:47 | <motle> | suplements people, |
| 2021-07-29 21:30:08 | <maerwald[m]> | Ok, you pay in supplements? |
| 2021-07-29 21:30:35 | <motle> | you can have salad, and you can go elsewhere for your suplements |
| 2021-07-29 21:31:09 | <maerwald[m]> | I think I'm out :) |
| 2021-07-29 21:31:10 | <motle> | idk if this counts as fair trade or what... |
| 2021-07-29 21:31:18 | <motle> | yeah me to! |
| 2021-07-29 21:31:30 | <motle> | fucking diet! |
| 2021-07-29 21:31:50 | <maerwald[m]> | This isn't Haskell Den :p |
| 2021-07-29 21:32:06 | <motle> | you were wanting paid |
| 2021-07-29 21:32:10 | × | retroid_ quits (~retro@5ec19a54.skybroadband.com) (Quit: Connection error?!) |
| 2021-07-29 21:32:16 | <motle> | i just wanted codezzzz |
| 2021-07-29 21:32:27 | <motle> | all my code is defective |
| 2021-07-29 21:32:36 | <motle> | its all strewn |
| 2021-07-29 21:32:56 | <motle> | i cant unfurl it |
| 2021-07-29 21:33:30 | <motle> | its like trying to play a melting guitar |
| 2021-07-29 21:34:08 | → | pesada joins (~agua@191.177.175.57) |
| 2021-07-29 21:34:32 | <motle> | idk, i think it might have been important for something, i cant tell |
| 2021-07-29 21:34:41 | <roboguy_> | motle: sometimes when that happens to me, I start over. Usually I have fresh insight and come up with a new way to structure the code |
| 2021-07-29 21:34:42 | × | neightchan quits (~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-07-29 21:35:04 | <motle> | yeah, i do that, and i see the universe instantly |
| 2021-07-29 21:35:19 | <roboguy_> | hmm |
| 2021-07-29 21:35:33 | <motle> | and then all my code kind of evaporates |
| 2021-07-29 21:36:13 | <motle> | i mean im like, whatt was the oh the huge graph of everything with the polymorphic loopy bp oh god i cant do that |
| 2021-07-29 21:36:28 | <motle> | helpf |
| 2021-07-29 21:37:06 | → | jmorris joins (uid433911@id-433911.stonehaven.irccloud.com) |
| 2021-07-29 21:37:10 | <motle> | *points to years of groundwork dashed about the place* |
| 2021-07-29 21:37:26 | <motle> | its the thing! |
| 2021-07-29 21:37:52 | <motle> | i had various parts of it working at times... |
| 2021-07-29 21:37:53 | × | agua quits (~agua@2804:18:4f:b157:1:0:6976:119) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-07-29 21:38:03 | <motle> | im sure of it! |
| 2021-07-29 21:38:18 | × | dhil quits (~dhil@195.213.192.47) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-07-29 21:38:28 | <motle> | at what point does it self assemble? |
| 2021-07-29 21:38:45 | <motle> | i try googling things and it just ends up more disparate! |
| 2021-07-29 21:39:38 | → | aegon joins (~mike@174.127.249.180) |
| 2021-07-29 21:39:43 | <motle> | i guess left in this state long enough gona try hitting it with a hammer |
| 2021-07-29 21:39:50 | <motle> | at some point! |
| 2021-07-29 21:39:54 | <aegon> | is there an easy way to host the haddock generated by stack through a stack command, if not what web server do you use |
| 2021-07-29 21:40:02 | <aegon> | or what is your favorite method |
| 2021-07-29 21:40:14 | → | agua joins (~agua@2804:18:4f:b157:1:0:6976:119) |
| 2021-07-29 21:40:57 | × | pesada quits (~agua@191.177.175.57) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2021-07-29 21:41:09 | <arkanoid> | I've almost at the end of my "first week with haskell experiment" and it has been a great experience. But I've some high level question for more experienced users and are more on the production side of haskell |
| 2021-07-29 21:42:07 | <motle> | iv tried slopping the code back *into* the cup..... |
| 2021-07-29 21:42:20 | <motle> | but most of it isnt in the cup... |
| 2021-07-29 21:42:42 | <motle> | is this common? |
| 2021-07-29 21:42:49 | <Drew[m]> | aegon: You run your own hoogle server with --local to get a version of hoogle that only provides documentation for the actual version of dependencies you're currently compiling with |
| 2021-07-29 21:43:07 | × | son0p- quits (~ff@181.136.122.143) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-07-29 21:43:07 | × | son0p quits (~ff@181.136.122.143) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-07-29 21:43:15 | <Drew[m]> | I'm a cabal user but there's probably a `stack hoogle` command, I can't remember |
| 2021-07-29 21:43:37 | <motle> | yeah, your right, there was a command for that |
| 2021-07-29 21:44:15 | <arkanoid> | one thing that scares me te most in picking up haskell for a serious project is the fragmentation of the haskell packages. I have no feeling of a center where "big and enstablished" libraries/framework revolves around. When do libraries get "blessed" by the community? When do library dies and gets deprecated? |
| 2021-07-29 21:44:16 | <Drew[m]> | So you'd want `stack hoogle --local` probably |
| 2021-07-29 21:44:48 | <motle> | arkanoid: the fragmentation does not happen in haskell, only at its boarder |
| 2021-07-29 21:44:59 | <motle> | siege! |
| 2021-07-29 21:45:11 | <deejaytee> | arkanoid: stackage could sort of be construed as a "big and established" ground, though some of the libraries still are on the small side |
| 2021-07-29 21:45:14 | <motle> | might complain to brussles |
| 2021-07-29 21:45:34 | <dsal> | arkanoid: That's an interesting concern. But for the most part, I grab things that work for me and use them or make my own. |
| 2021-07-29 21:45:40 | × | fluffyballoon quits (~fluffybal@pat-verona-h.epic.com) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2021-07-29 21:45:41 | <motle> | they say we should get on with the graph |
| 2021-07-29 21:45:45 | <maerwald[m]> | Lol |
| 2021-07-29 21:46:02 | <dsal> | But yeah, stackage ends up filtering out things that aren't maintained well because language changes end up breaking things and they fall out of stackage if people don't update their stuff. |
| 2021-07-29 21:46:25 | <dsal> | (I still end up using things that aren't in stackage for a few reasons, though) |
| 2021-07-29 21:46:25 | → | fluffyballoon joins (~fluffybal@pat-verona-h.epic.com) |
| 2021-07-29 21:47:28 | <motle> | coffee?? |
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