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2021-06-13 20:01:15 <davean> You need to use the folds
2021-06-13 20:01:29 <maerwald> but then I thought... why use tar at all, I'm gonna re-implement it in streamly
2021-06-13 20:01:46 <maerwald> but then I was too lazy and used `libarchive`
2021-06-13 20:02:00 <maerwald> which now exposed me to tons of c2hs errors
2021-06-13 20:02:10 <maerwald> you can't win :)
2021-06-13 20:02:31 <davean> So you can use the folds interface just fine of tar
2021-06-13 20:02:42 <shapr> I kinda want to start a hackathon to add more tests to the most used libraries on hackage
2021-06-13 20:02:49 <shapr> too bad I won't be at zurihac :-(
2021-06-13 20:03:04 <maerwald> shapr: why not?
2021-06-13 20:03:07 <davean> shapr: Yah, we actually signed up for the UNIX tests as an OSS project to run the ACTUAL standards tests on tar
2021-06-13 20:03:28 <Rembane> shapr: If you start a distancehackathon wtih that purpose I'm in!
2021-06-13 20:03:55 <davean> shapr: you've seen my test coverage :-p
2021-06-13 20:03:58 <shapr> maerwald: I'm driving to see my family this weekend, emergency things that have to be done
2021-06-13 20:04:10 <davean> shapr: I tend to give up when I start finding bugs in the linux kernel via my unit tests
2021-06-13 20:04:15 <shapr> cdsmith showed me hpc yesterday, somehow I've never seen it before!
2021-06-13 20:04:28 <shapr> I'd like to see hpc coverage for all the libraries, in reverse dependcy order.
2021-06-13 20:04:30 <davean> shapr: wait, really? No you have
2021-06-13 20:04:40 <davean> shapr: because you've seen my coverage
2021-06-13 20:04:51 <shapr> davean: might have been years ago?
2021-06-13 20:04:55 × juhp quits (~juhp@128.106.188.66) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-06-13 20:04:56 × _ht quits (~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-13 20:04:58 <davean> Sure, it was in like 2018
2021-06-13 20:05:09 <shapr> I must have forgotten
2021-06-13 20:05:40 <davean> I've done coverage with you though when we paired
2021-06-13 20:05:48 shapr shrugs
2021-06-13 20:06:09 <davean> shapr: cabal wants hpc to be something it isn't :(
2021-06-13 20:06:19 <davean> That entire tree is such a mess
2021-06-13 20:06:32 <shapr> I think it'd be nice to have a tests hackathon
2021-06-13 20:07:01 <davean> shapr: I know I specificly went over how I did the tests in 'miss' with you BTW
2021-06-13 20:07:21 <davean> getting a fast test suite with high coverage
2021-06-13 20:07:25 <davean> I remember that specificly
2021-06-13 20:07:36 juhp joins (~juhp@128.106.188.66)
2021-06-13 20:07:40 <davean> talking about testing methedologies in Haskell
2021-06-13 20:07:55 <davean> shapr: you know theres laziness testing libraries, right?
2021-06-13 20:08:16 × raehik1 quits (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-06-13 20:08:25 <shapr> davean: I think I've heard of such
2021-06-13 20:08:28 <davean> actually, maerwald and dminuoso - if you do work with people who don't understand the details, have you tried specifying and using inspection testing?
2021-06-13 20:09:08 × hemlock quits (~hemlock@2600:8804:4c0a:3200:91a4:77db:aed9:3c83) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-13 20:10:26 hemlock joins (~hemlock@2600:8804:4c0a:3200:91a4:77db:aed9:3c83)
2021-06-13 20:10:50 <maerwald> I've not used hpc that extensively
2021-06-13 20:11:44 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-06-13 20:13:01 <maerwald> my real world problem are IO probles (e.g. in ghcup... some file operation blowing up on windows 7, bc some registry key is not set)
2021-06-13 20:13:04 × wallymathieu quits (~wallymath@81-234-151-21-no94.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-13 20:13:11 <davean> maerwald: its not very loved.
2021-06-13 20:13:17 <davean> maerwald: well, thats what hpc is good for though
2021-06-13 20:13:33 <maerwald> given that you HAVE a windows 7 machine :p
2021-06-13 20:13:37 <davean> maerwald: I think you may not have read closely enough? hpc is coverage, it tells you what code is used. inspection testing is entirely seperate
2021-06-13 20:13:47 <davean> maerwald: I mean thats what CI is for?
2021-06-13 20:14:02 <davean> maerwald: but thats actually not the problem
2021-06-13 20:14:07 <maerwald> davean: yeah, except half of our runners are broken due to docker right now
2021-06-13 20:14:10 <davean> not having a W7 machine is what hpc helps with
2021-06-13 20:14:13 <maerwald> but I'm going offtrack
2021-06-13 20:14:19 <davean> it shows you *haven't checked that code path on any machine*
2021-06-13 20:14:38 <maerwald> davean: I'm not sure that would catch it... bc I do run that codepath on Windows 10
2021-06-13 20:14:42 <maerwald> it just behaves different there
2021-06-13 20:14:56 <davean> maerwald: you sure? you sure there isn't a branch not taken on W10?
2021-06-13 20:15:30 <maerwald> in MY code all paths are taken
2021-06-13 20:15:35 <maerwald> dependencies, ffi etc, I dunno
2021-06-13 20:15:47 <davean> Yah well how far you push coverage down is a thing
2021-06-13 20:16:01 <maerwald> So what I'm more interested in is testing behavior
2021-06-13 20:16:03 <davean> I've been pushing coverage into the kernel for some of my more important projects, but thats hard with Haskell
2021-06-13 20:16:10 dunkeln joins (~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-13 20:16:23 <davean> If I ever figure out a useful setup for that, I should write it up ...
2021-06-13 20:16:26 <davean> everything I've got is shit
2021-06-13 20:16:28 <maerwald> when half your code is about IO and file operations, behavior matters more than anything else
2021-06-13 20:16:33 × alex3 quits (~alex3@BSN-77-82-41.static.siol.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-06-13 20:17:31 <maerwald> I thought about using freer or whatnot to define all these operations in a DSL, which may give me more flexibility... but this might just be "cool", but not help in any way
2021-06-13 20:17:56 kayprish joins (~kayprish@cable-188-2-229-172.dynamic.sbb.rs)
2021-06-13 20:18:05 <maerwald> however, you could write interpreters, that simulate e.g. windows 7
2021-06-13 20:18:06 <davean> I've used that (with free, not freer) to get cleaner code and faster testing before
2021-06-13 20:18:22 <maerwald> like simulate file locking, right?
2021-06-13 20:18:25 <maerwald> that would be cool
2021-06-13 20:18:29 × reumeth quits (~reumeth@user/reumeth) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-13 20:18:34 <davean> I actually worked on a FS crash simulator
2021-06-13 20:18:40 <davean> Need to restart that project
2021-06-13 20:18:53 reumeth joins (~reumeth@user/reumeth)
2021-06-13 20:18:57 <davean> but it cuts off at the FS access level, and produces all legal FS behaviors as a tree
2021-06-13 20:18:58 <maerwald> linux vs windows is a HUGE difference... mainly due to file locking
2021-06-13 20:19:09 <davean> File locking was a reason for it
2021-06-13 20:19:17 <davean> git is ... hard to get right with respect to locks
2021-06-13 20:19:37 <davean> the design is highly inconsistent
2021-06-13 20:19:50 <davean> maerwald: why would you choose freer?
2021-06-13 20:19:54 <maerwald> like... self-updating an exe on linux: just remove it... on windows: 1. uh, try file rename, 2. but oh wait... needs to be atomic... so 3. are we on the same device and 4. make sure it really is atomic
2021-06-13 20:20:11 <maerwald> davean: becase `eff` isn't ready yet
2021-06-13 20:20:18 <maerwald> not sure it ever will
2021-06-13 20:20:31 <davean> You're happy with the freer design though?
2021-06-13 20:21:06 <davean> I'm much more comfortable with the 'free' approach
2021-06-13 20:21:49 benin0366 joins (~benin@183.82.205.8)
2021-06-13 20:21:50 <maerwald> I dunno... I also looked at polysemy and it wasn't that bad either. But from what I understand they're all slow and may even be unsound
2021-06-13 20:22:03 <davean> Right, this is why I lean to 'free' over any of them
2021-06-13 20:22:15 × benin036 quits (~benin@183.82.205.8) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-13 20:22:16 benin0366 is now known as benin036
2021-06-13 20:22:26 <davean> so I'm curious what your selection approach was
2021-06-13 20:22:36 <maerwald> "ergonomics", less technical
2021-06-13 20:22:52 <davean> Hum, the technicalities were critical to me, interesting
2021-06-13 20:22:53 <maerwald> my code is IO-bound
2021-06-13 20:23:04 <davean> Its nto about performance

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