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2021-08-02 20:26:44 × pesada quits (~agua@2804:14c:8793:8e2f:64f8:45c2:2056:5625) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2021-08-02 20:45:53 <dsal> I'm not sure how I feel about that...
2021-08-02 20:46:27 × werneta quits (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-02 20:46:34 × markpythonicbitc quits (~textual@2601:647:5a00:35:e0da:ada7:2ca5:10dd) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2021-08-02 20:49:42 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-08-02 20:51:04 <johnw> ("foo",5) is 5 with some contextual info
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2021-08-02 20:52:37 <dsal> Yeah, I think I've used it that way. Some thing are obvious if you look at them from one angle, but bizarre if you look from another.
2021-08-02 20:53:47 <dsal> > view each . fmap show $ ("five", 5)
2021-08-02 20:53:48 <lambdabot> "five5"
2021-08-02 20:53:54 <raehik> I'm continually getting this mysterious "The exact Name 'f' is not in scope" error while trying to use deriving via. Anyone know what's going on?
2021-08-02 20:54:15 <dsal> Is the exact Name 'f' in scope?
2021-08-02 20:55:01 <raehik> :t f says nothing in scope
2021-08-02 20:55:02 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘in’
2021-08-02 20:55:20 agua_pesada joins (~agua_pesa@2804:14c:8793:8e2f:48b4:3d09:2f3b:552b)
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2021-08-02 20:55:43 <raehik> I wrote one typeclass and did some standalone deriving vias for it. now I just wrote another, and I'm getting this error (which I was also getting previously, but thought it was due to multi params type classes)
2021-08-02 20:56:16 <raehik> they're exactly the same apart from the function sig and name, totally lost from the error msg
2021-08-02 20:56:32 × markpythonicbitc quits (~textual@2601:647:5a00:35:e0da:ada7:2ca5:10dd) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-08-02 20:56:44 drd joins (~drd@151.37.160.53)
2021-08-02 21:00:27 <raehik> is there some deriving via magic going on that doesn't like lenses?? that's the only thing I can think of
2021-08-02 21:02:39 × jgeerds quits (~jgeerds@55d45555.access.ecotel.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-02 21:03:17 × fendor quits (~fendor@178.115.48.162.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-02 21:06:32 <raehik> urgh. I have no idea. Stupid Template Haskell stuff, really weird
2021-08-02 21:07:00 <raehik> I separate the TH (only makeLenses!) and it Just Works. sigh
2021-08-02 21:08:14 <Hecate> raehik: lesson of the day, TH is quirky and opaque
2021-08-02 21:08:27 <raehik> oh no, I was wrong, ok less mad
2021-08-02 21:08:35 <raehik> it *is* still broken and it wasn't TH. lol
2021-08-02 21:08:59 <raehik> now it tells me "it was probably TH" but the module doesn't even have it enabled. stunning
2021-08-02 21:12:08 <dsal> TH changes a few things.
2021-08-02 21:13:43 <c_wraith> TH makes declaration order matter :(
2021-08-02 21:14:24 <raehik> I know that TH impacts how things run. There is now no TH in this module, but the error message is quite useless
2021-08-02 21:14:58 <raehik> I can't find any info on debugging deriving via online (I didn't know it could emit such errors)
2021-08-02 21:15:26 markpythonicbitc joins (~textual@2601:647:5a00:35:e0da:ada7:2ca5:10dd)
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2021-08-02 21:17:40 <raehik> ohhh hold on, 'f' might be from the lens
2021-08-02 21:17:54 <raehik> now I'm remembering you can't stuff lenses into typeclasses without a second thought
2021-08-02 21:20:19 <raehik> Lord help me with GHC's error messages. that was it, me forgetting lenses and typeclasses are
2021-08-02 21:22:45 <monochrom> Perhaps start with no lens.
2021-08-02 21:23:13 <dminuoso> raehik: If you insist on what lens offers, you can also consider the `optics` package
2021-08-02 21:23:18 <dminuoso> Which neatly hides the implementation behind newtypes
2021-08-02 21:28:55 <raehik> monochrom: I did start with no lenses! I figured being able to stuff a lens inside my HasX typeclasses might be interesting, so they could be used for MonadState as well as Reader
2021-08-02 21:29:41 <raehik> dminuoso: I've looked *at* optics before but never into it. I'm still a relatively new Haskeller. would you recommend it over the lens pkg?
2021-08-02 21:30:10 <geekosaur> ifnothing else, it has better error messages than lens
2021-08-02 21:30:43 <c_wraith> on the other hand, the lack of extensibility feels so limitng
2021-08-02 21:30:47 <c_wraith> or even limiting
2021-08-02 21:30:52 <c_wraith> all it can do is accessors
2021-08-02 21:31:26 <dminuoso> raehik: Personally I prefer it for a multitude of reasons.
2021-08-02 21:31:37 <dminuoso> And I would recommend it over lens.
2021-08-02 21:31:45 <dminuoso> But it's just personal preference, really
2021-08-02 21:32:18 × amahl quits (~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-02 21:32:49 × xrel quits (~xrel@69.233.98.238) (Quit: nyaa~)
2021-08-02 21:32:50 <c_wraith> anyone know offhand whether any of the proposed designs for dependent haskell allow putting pi types on instance declarations?
2021-08-02 21:33:00 <raehik> thanks all, I'll remember them next time I'm using lenses. maybe I'll give one of the talks I bookmarked a shot
2021-08-02 21:33:59 <dminuoso> c_wraith: What do you mean by "all it can do it accessors"?
2021-08-02 21:36:06 × Vajb quits (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-08-02 21:37:35 <dsal> I think last time I looked at optics, it didn't support prisms, which is kind of an important thing for many of my use cases.
2021-08-02 21:37:41 <c_wraith> dminuoso: there's no equivalent of holesOf for when you're doing non-deterministic algorithms. There's no ability to extend it to embed additional effects in the traversal process like... uh shoot, I haven't released that library yet.
2021-08-02 21:38:04 <c_wraith> The library works, I just hate writing enough documentation to tell people what it does :)
2021-08-02 21:38:10 × geekosaur quits (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
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2021-08-02 21:39:23 <c_wraith> basically, optics is closed. It can only do what its authors build into it. lens is open, and you can add all sorts of stuff in ways that remain compatible with it.
2021-08-02 21:40:22 <dminuoso> dsal: You should look again.
2021-08-02 21:40:47 <dsal> Ooh, I was thinking about microlens
2021-08-02 21:41:16 <dminuoso> c_wraith: Fair enough, yeah it doesnt cater to extravagant/exotic needs. :-)
2021-08-02 21:41:29 <dminuoso> I think for mere mortals it's a great library.
2021-08-02 21:41:41 Vajb joins (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-08-02 21:41:52 <arkho> GHC will not import Data.Scientific into my module, stating that it's not safe. What does this mean? How can I fix it?
2021-08-02 21:41:58 <raehik> <- mere mortal :)
2021-08-02 21:43:45 <arkho> Or is that a question for #ghc ?
2021-08-02 21:44:02 <dminuoso> Sounds like you have safe haskell enabled
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2021-08-02 21:47:08 <arkho> Is this a global thing that I can disable? Or do I have to change source files?
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2021-08-02 21:50:35 <geekosaur> ?? this is something that you would have had to explicitly enable, so why are you asking us?

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