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2020-10-29 22:50:27 <merijn> "Our bad, guys! We fucked up the package manager, but we'll get it right this time!" *proceeds to get it wrong in entirely different ways*
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2020-10-29 22:51:20 <dsal> 1kloc is massive, though. My whole GoPro app is only about 1400 lines. And that's a bunch of commandline tools (resumable upload that has to keep state), syncing to the cloud via AWS magic, local downloads, its web API, syncing down from their cloud, a SQL interface to update data via their API, and other crap (something like 16 commands in the CLI tool)
2020-10-29 22:51:21 <texasmynsted> https://xkcd.com/927/
2020-10-29 22:51:33 <texasmynsted> Like that but with package managers?
2020-10-29 22:51:54 <thblt> merijn: a french tv show, the Shadoks, came up with the motto that given a very low chance of success, failing in all possible ways will get you closer to success ("The more you fail, the more likely you are to win")
2020-10-29 22:51:55 texasmynsted shrug
2020-10-29 22:52:04 <thblt> dsal: that's 0.1
2020-10-29 22:52:13 <thblt> 100 lines
2020-10-29 22:52:34 <thblt> a quick script that may need to gzip stuff or read command line args
2020-10-29 22:52:37 <texasmynsted> thblt: That is some good wisdom there
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2020-10-29 22:54:08 <texasmynsted> The "double your failure rate" idea.
2020-10-29 22:54:11 <dsal> thblt: ah, I've not seen fractions of a kloc. My log management thing is about 80 lines. Take individual logs from S3 and combine them into a 7z file, deleting the old logs and uploading the fancy compressed one. I do use the 7z commandline, though.
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2020-10-29 22:55:10 <thblt> dsal: sorry for the confusion.
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2020-10-29 22:55:24 <dsal> I originally wrote this thing in go, but it was a lot longer, buggier, and harder to follow. https://github.com/dustin/papertrails/blob/master/app/Main.hs#L43-L57
2020-10-29 22:55:51 <hekkaidekapus> dolio: People who are into research related to Statistics/Image Processing publish stuff developped with Matlab, R, Julia, Python. And once you set a foot into those waters, it’s hard to use another language because “State Of The Art”.
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2020-10-29 22:58:01 <thblt> That reminds me I have a stupid shebang script to transparently compile haskell scripts with stack
2020-10-29 22:58:29 <thblt> Maybe I'll end up doing my scripting with haskell too at some point :)
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2020-10-29 22:59:25 <sm[m]> thblt: stack's script command works great for that
2020-10-29 22:59:33 <dsal> Hmm... My original v5 mqtt bridge was closer to 150 lines, but I built a language parser to express the bridging configurations. It's grown since then, though. I've got multiway bridging with rewrite rules and stuff. Currently 268 lines...
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2020-10-29 23:00:45 <dolio> Yeah, I'm no expert, but I imagine the 'program' part isn't complicated in a lot of cases. It's making use of a bunch of already built statistics stuff, which is why you use matlab/R/etc.
2020-10-29 23:01:14 <thblt> sm[m]: My old script uses stack, it just recompiles when modified and saves in a cache dir https://github.com/thblt/hsbang
2020-10-29 23:01:28 <sm[m]> stack script does that also
2020-10-29 23:01:44 <thblt> good to know, thanks!
2020-10-29 23:01:47 <dsal> Heh. Did you reinvent nix? :)
2020-10-29 23:02:29 <sm[m]> stack script --compile, more specifically
2020-10-29 23:02:58 <yushyin> I've the same problem with cabal's script command, it does not cache and recompiles every time :/
2020-10-29 23:02:59 <thblt> No, not at all! The dependency system is all stack, all what my script did was save the compiled binary and call it instead of the source script.
2020-10-29 23:03:18 <sm[m]> yushyin: right, cabal doesn't have this feature yet
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2020-10-29 23:04:52 <hekkaidekapus> dolio: The statistics part of, say R, is mostly made of wrappers around C and Fortran. One could clean up all the mess around S3 classes, S4 classes,… (S5?) and use Haskell’s FFI. But once you go in that direction, bibliometry and funding will go in your way.
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2020-10-29 23:07:59 <hekkaidekapus> As in, folks don’t care how they get to the publications as long as there is a fast-and-loose way to get them, as you wrote.
2020-10-29 23:10:13 <dsal> almost everything I like about R is ggplot2
2020-10-29 23:10:34 <dsal> (all the other parts I relearn every time so I can get back to ggplot2)
2020-10-29 23:11:21 <sm[m]> wow, today I learned that stack script --optimize /= stack script --compile
2020-10-29 23:11:30 <hekkaidekapus> ggplot2 is great because of the Grammar of Graphics. But once you peel beyong the surface, it’s C all way down.
2020-10-29 23:11:34 <nshepperd2> ggplotly is pretty cool. the thing that takes a ggplot2 and turns it into an interactive web chart
2020-10-29 23:11:37 <sm[m]> neither are in the user guide
2020-10-29 23:13:44 <hekkaidekapus> And writing that Grammar part in R is cumbersome.
2020-10-29 23:14:33 <dsal> I've not tried fancier stuff. I've often wished for ggplot2 and d3 to like, hang out. I've done a bunch of low-level junk in D3 and high level junk in ggplot2. Can take a while to express things effectively. By the time I get to the end, I'm too tired/Stockholmed to file any usability bugs.
2020-10-29 23:14:35 <hekkaidekapus> But since there is a wide ecosystem around ggplot2, who cares about the foundations :)
2020-10-29 23:15:35 <hekkaidekapus> lol
2020-10-29 23:18:27 <hekkaidekapus> Fancier stuff in ggplot2 will involve the family of *apply* functions. Imagine if people used Hashell’s features of filtering and traversing instead of a pure Scheme.
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2020-10-29 23:18:51 <hekkaidekapus> *poor (not pure)
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