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2020-10-04 17:24:45 haasn` is now known as haasn
2020-10-04 17:26:11 → conal joins (~conal@64.71.133.70)
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2020-10-04 17:36:10 <justsomeguy> What do you think of using Haskell to write devops tooling? (Stuff to talk to APIs over http, move files, ssh into things and run commands remotely, log analysis, talk to dbus, etc.)
2020-10-04 17:36:23 <maerwald> use bash
2020-10-04 17:36:49 <maerwald> all you gonna do is trying to wrap existing tools (like curl), what for
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2020-10-04 17:37:45 <Guest_4963> complete novice to ghcup - run installation but no ghci - is that normal?
2020-10-04 17:37:59 <Guest_4963> complete novice to ghcup - I ran the ghcup installation but no ghci - is that normal?
2020-10-04 17:38:12 <maerwald> Guest_4963: source ~/.ghcup/env
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2020-10-04 17:43:15 <Guest_4963> @maerwald thanks! turns out I had to run 'ghcup set'
2020-10-04 17:43:15 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
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2020-10-04 18:05:59 <kindaro> What monad transformer should I use for modeling non-determinism? I read that the obvious `Control.Monad.Trans.List` is deprecated. My underlying monad is Q from Template Haskell.
2020-10-04 18:07:29 <kindaro> A quick search shows that there is a number of alternatives and I wonder if any of them is considered superiour.
2020-10-04 18:08:44 → ericsagnes joins (~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:546d:33c9:eb39:ecef)
2020-10-04 18:08:50 <sm[m]> justsomeguy: you might be interested in http://hackage.haskell.org/package/propellor
2020-10-04 18:09:27 hackage rib-core 1.0.0.0 - Static site generator based on Shake https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rib-core-1.0.0.0 (sridca)
2020-10-04 18:09:40 × wroathe_ quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-04 18:09:45 × nineonine quits (~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-04 18:10:28 hackage rib 1.0.0.0 - Static site generator based on Shake https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rib-1.0.0.0 (sridca)
2020-10-04 18:12:21 <ski> @hackage ListT done right
2020-10-04 18:12:22 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ListT done right
2020-10-04 18:12:27 <ski> er, right
2020-10-04 18:12:32 <ski> @hackage ListT_done_right
2020-10-04 18:12:33 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ListT_done_right
2020-10-04 18:13:05 × elliott__ quits (~elliott@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-04 18:13:50 <ski> oh. sorry, i'm actually using the wrong lambdabot command (which explains why the link was incorrect) ..
2020-10-04 18:13:52 <ddellacosta> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/list-t
2020-10-04 18:13:55 <ski> @wiki ListT_done_right
2020-10-04 18:13:55 <lambdabot> https://wiki.haskell.org/ListT_done_right
2020-10-04 18:14:05 <ddellacosta> ^ think you're looking for that ski?
2020-10-04 18:14:05 → idhugo joins (~idhugo@563472ae.rev.stofanet.dk)
2020-10-04 18:14:37 <ski> no, i was looking for that wiki page (having just looked at it, before, in the browser)
2020-10-04 18:14:45 <ddellacosta> oh, gotcha, sorry to muddy the waters
2020-10-04 18:14:51 <ski> (but it does mention `list-t', yes)
2020-10-04 18:15:22 × mav1 quits (~mav@i5E86200D.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-04 18:15:55 <justsomeguy> sm[m]: Looks awesome <3. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
2020-10-04 18:15:58 → conal_ joins (~conal@209.58.131.35)
2020-10-04 18:16:25 <sm[m]> it's interesting, I have used it a bit but not in anger. Let me know if you do
2020-10-04 18:16:45 <kindaro> @sk
2020-10-04 18:16:46 <lambdabot> Who should I ask?
2020-10-04 18:16:55 <sm[m]> the downside is you have to install a haskell toolchain before you use it, unlike a bash script
2020-10-04 18:17:04 → nineonine joins (~nineonine@216.81.48.202)
2020-10-04 18:17:35 <sm[m]> an upside is that it converges to the desired state, unlike most bash scripts
2020-10-04 18:17:36 → elliott__ joins (~elliott@2607:fb90:18d5:a5f3:100d:8762:6765:2dc)
2020-10-04 18:17:37 <kindaro> ski, I am aware of that page, but it does not single out a specific package. Besides, my impression is that Haskell Wiki is mostly obsolete.
2020-10-04 18:17:56 <sm[m]> (when is that really useful ? I'm not sure)
2020-10-04 18:18:03 <ddellacosta> some parts remain very useful, but unfortunately it can be hard to filter out what is and isn't deprecated info
2020-10-04 18:18:14 <ski> kindaro : it's not too clear what you're looking for, i guess
2020-10-04 18:18:43 <maerwald> I've used propellor and I would not recommend it
2020-10-04 18:18:54 <kindaro> What is not clear? I am looking for a monad transformer for running non-deterministic effectful computations.
2020-10-04 18:18:55 × conal quits (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-04 18:19:07 <kindaro> Preferably one that enjoys community support.
2020-10-04 18:19:32 <ski> are you looking for some sort of incremental streaming ?
2020-10-04 18:19:34 <justsomeguy> Even if it's not a practical tool, it will be interesting for me to read the code to see how it works.
2020-10-04 18:19:37 <maerwald> For the kind of stuff propellor does, you don't actually care much about types. You care about: 1. documentation, 2. help and community and 3. correctness of the recipes
2020-10-04 18:19:44 <maerwald> propellor scores low on all of these
2020-10-04 18:20:10 <ski> by "non-deterministic", do you have angelic non-determinism in mind ? erratic ? demonic ?
2020-10-04 18:20:51 → Deide joins (~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2020-10-04 18:20:52 <ski> there should be some CPS-based `ListT' alternative, although i forget the package name
2020-10-04 18:20:57 <maerwald> ansible scores higher on 1. and 2., but not on 3.
2020-10-04 18:21:28 <maerwald> but it's much easier to use and has better support
2020-10-04 18:21:55 → michalrus joins (m@michalrus.com)
2020-10-04 18:22:04 <geekosaur> I haven't seen much that scores high on 3. because everyone's after "just good enough"
2020-10-04 18:22:07 <maerwald> if you want support for propellor... there's not even a github issue tracker
2020-10-04 18:22:09 → kenperkins1 joins (~kenperkin@185.163.110.116)
2020-10-04 18:22:13 × Amras quits (~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-04 18:22:14 <kindaro> I have functions like `a → m [b]`, `b → m Bool` and so on. I want to get a composition of functors `m` and `[ ]` that happens to be a monad.
2020-10-04 18:22:26 <maerwald> you sign up for some weird forum where no one ever replies
2020-10-04 18:22:29 <ski> if you're looking for a backtracking monad transformer, with fair scheduling, then you could try `logict'
2020-10-04 18:22:32 <geekosaur> ( </grump> )
2020-10-04 18:22:43 × michalrus quits (m@michalrus.com) (Client Quit)
2020-10-04 18:22:49 <justsomeguy> I'm pretty disillusioned when it comes to configuration management systems, overall, to be honest.
2020-10-04 18:23:10 <ski> kindaro : you want the `b's to be produced incrementally, with `m'-effects interleaved inbetween ?
2020-10-04 18:23:24 <maerwald> I replaced propellor with ansible in one company and we never looked back. It was a good decision.
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