Logs: freenode/#haskell
| 2021-04-29 17:11:42 | <DigitalKiwi> | maerwald: that i might enjoy more lol |
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| 2021-04-29 17:13:07 | <maerwald> | but the languages I really hate, I'm not proficient enough with to provide a proper rant |
| 2021-04-29 17:13:11 | <maerwald> | (e.g. C++) |
| 2021-04-29 17:13:24 | <catern> | ah I think https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/359576.359579 is perfect |
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| 2021-04-29 17:14:28 | <catern> | (and obviously, classic and important) |
| 2021-04-29 17:14:50 | <DigitalKiwi> | python a week ago is harder to fix than adding features to haskell i wrote years ago ;( |
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| 2021-04-29 17:16:19 | <maerwald> | if you write a small django app, then it should be fine |
| 2021-04-29 17:16:22 | <liyang> | catern: I 'member. Good choice. (I should read it again.) |
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| 2021-04-29 17:16:46 | <maerwald> | python is my go-to prototyping language |
| 2021-04-29 17:17:00 | <maerwald> | because once you're done, you *really* want to throw away the result |
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| 2021-04-29 17:17:11 | <monochrom> | :) |
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| 2021-04-29 17:18:23 | <DigitalKiwi> | maerwald: lol that python that's supposed to get thrown away ends up being in prod for 30 years |
| 2021-04-29 17:18:49 | <Rembane> | That's true for all prototype code regardless of language :/ |
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| 2021-04-29 17:19:07 | <monochrom> | People fall in love with their own creations. |
| 2021-04-29 17:19:21 | <monochrom> | blindly fall in love |
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| 2021-04-29 17:20:16 | <maerwald> | DigitalKiwi: in haskell, whatever you prototyped usually ends up uploaded on hackage and used by companies you don't know... |
| 2021-04-29 17:20:32 | <DigitalKiwi> | ...and not in the good way. like in the perpetually broken and maintenance burden and always "we really need to rewrite this" |
| 2021-04-29 17:20:38 | <maerwald> | I've never uploaded a python lib, ever |
| 2021-04-29 17:20:51 | <geekosaur> | DigitalKiwi, thta again happens in any language |
| 2021-04-29 17:20:58 | <DigitalKiwi> | yes |
| 2021-04-29 17:21:18 | <DigitalKiwi> | so start with something better ;) |
| 2021-04-29 17:21:51 | <maerwald> | I actually believe in prototyping |
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| 2021-04-29 17:22:51 | <maerwald> | and same-language rewrites |
| 2021-04-29 17:23:06 | <DigitalKiwi> | so prototype in haskell |
| 2021-04-29 17:23:32 | <maerwald> | if the requiremens changes go beyond a certain point, your architecture will inevitably fail |
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| 2021-04-29 17:23:36 | <maerwald> | DigitalKiwi: too slow |
| 2021-04-29 17:24:00 | <maerwald> | because too many toys |
| 2021-04-29 17:24:14 | <DigitalKiwi> | lol oh i know lol |
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| 2021-04-29 17:24:59 | <DigitalKiwi> | but that's a problem of self control not of haskell ;p |
| 2021-04-29 17:25:09 | <maerwald> | python is so boring that you just focus on the task |
| 2021-04-29 17:25:17 | <maerwald> | no FRP, no effects systems, no nothing |
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| 2021-04-29 17:26:00 | <maerwald> | so haskell prototypes turn out to be library experiments, rather than prototypes |
| 2021-04-29 17:26:26 | <maerwald> | and then you like the result a little too much |
| 2021-04-29 17:26:27 | <monochrom> | I am unfamiliar with python libraries, so it is the opposite for me. When in Python, too many toys. |
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| 2021-04-29 17:26:58 | <monochrom> | When in Haskell I write boring code. |
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| 2021-04-29 17:28:24 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://github.com/nix-community/nixops-digitalocean/actions |
| 2021-04-29 17:29:10 | <maerwald> | what's that |
| 2021-04-29 17:30:48 | <DigitalKiwi> | python being a pita |
| 2021-04-29 17:31:07 | <maerwald> | or is it nix :p |
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| 2021-04-29 17:31:40 | <DigitalKiwi> | fair question but in this case it is python |
| 2021-04-29 17:32:03 | <maerwald> | I believe nix is like perl... it'll have a steady decline over the next couple of years, but you'll never get rid of it completely |
| 2021-04-29 17:33:37 | <catern> | not sure why you'd expect a decline, it's growing rapidly the last couple years |
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| 2021-04-29 17:33:49 | <maerwald> | catern: perl also had a peak |
| 2021-04-29 17:33:57 | <monochrom> | oooohhhhhh |
| 2021-04-29 17:33:58 | <catern> | yes, not sure why you expect that peak is right now |
| 2021-04-29 17:34:16 | <DigitalKiwi> | i've written a lot more python than haskell in my life and it's horrible ;( |
| 2021-04-29 17:34:19 | <monochrom> | The O'Reily Perl book has a camel. Perhaps we should expect two peaks. |
| 2021-04-29 17:34:32 | <maerwald> | I hope not |
| 2021-04-29 17:35:28 | <maerwald> | catern: because it's well established now, there's not much more growth potential in terms of tech and the quality standards (or the lack thereof) have been established |
| 2021-04-29 17:36:13 | <maerwald> | I don't expect much change in the ecosystem |
| 2021-04-29 17:36:39 | <maerwald> | And I believe the disadvantages outweigh, so that people will slowly migrate away |
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| 2021-04-29 17:36:56 | <catern> | sure, that was all true two years ago too, nevertheless usage has grown a lot in the past two years; why do you expect it's going to stop sometime in the next year and turn into a decline? |
| 2021-04-29 17:37:40 | <catern> | "the inherent badness" isn't a sufficient reason for software projects to decline in usage, unfortunately :) |
| 2021-04-29 17:38:33 | <maerwald> | catern: yes, because it has been 2+ years now that users can observe that there won't be any more change |
| 2021-04-29 17:39:40 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat/2021-03-14#1615715873-1615710746 |
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| 2021-04-29 17:40:07 | <monochrom> | I expected that perl declined when php and python rose. Indeed my sysadmin, being the sysadmin type, sworn by perl back then but now swears by python. |
| 2021-04-29 17:40:40 | <monochrom> | But also indeed I have no data other than that one and that my university used to teach perl but not any more. |
| 2021-04-29 17:41:04 | <maerwald> | There I wonder: how would you teach nix? |
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