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Logs: freenode/#haskell

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2021-04-03 20:05:30 hypercube joins (~hypercube@2603-6011-f901-9e5b-0000-0000-0000-08cf.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-04-03 20:05:35 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-03 20:06:47 kiweun joins (~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:e938:55c9:2760:9dff)
2021-04-03 20:06:53 <pjb> monochrom: I fail to see how OO could be an anti-pattern; OO is basically modularity. When are the big-ball-of-mud or spaghetti-code the pattern of choice vs. OO?
2021-04-03 20:07:13 petersen joins (~petersen@redhat/juhp)
2021-04-03 20:07:32 <monochrom> That's a loaded question.
2021-04-03 20:07:40 × eam quits (~eam@185.169.233.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-03 20:09:13 <geekosaur> also, what style of OO?
2021-04-03 20:10:14 dcoutts joins (~duncan@94.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net)
2021-04-03 20:10:42 <zebrag> o_O
2021-04-03 20:11:25 × kiweun quits (~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:e938:55c9:2760:9dff) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-03 20:11:33 <maerwald> I think it's a trap
2021-04-03 20:11:37 <monochrom> But consider the big ball of mud that was Java before generics in which, for example, the Map insert method was "insert(Object key, Object value)", and the lookup method was "Object lookup(Object key)".
2021-04-03 20:12:12 <monochrom> "every value is an object" is the same as "every value is a ball of mud".
2021-04-03 20:13:29 <monochrom> In those backward days, you had to choose between two balls of mud.
2021-04-03 20:13:36 <monochrom> And it was uphill both ways.
2021-04-03 20:13:44 <monochrom> Also always snowing.
2021-04-03 20:14:17 <maerwald> OO was about hiding context/state arguments to functions. We reinvented that in haskell with ReaderT and friends
2021-04-03 20:14:59 <monochrom> I am holding this issue dearer to my heart than usual because recently I finished drafting explaining parametricity to undergrads.
2021-04-03 20:15:22 esp32_prog joins (esp32_prog@gateway/vpn/mullvad/esp32prog/x-46565127)
2021-04-03 20:15:57 <monochrom> And BTW modularity is not basically OO. Modularity is basically SML's parametrized modules.
2021-04-03 20:16:31 <monochrom> Or Modula-3 or Oberon or Ada to see it is not monopolized by FP.
2021-04-03 20:17:00 × fendor quits (~fendor@77.119.130.232.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-03 20:17:29 kenran joins (~kenran@i59F67B83.versanet.de)
2021-04-03 20:17:47 × jess quits (jess@freenode/staff/jess) (Quit: updates)
2021-04-03 20:18:01 × squidgle quits (c4f739ec@196.247.57.236) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-03 20:18:48 <monochrom> This also relates to an earlier conversation about good, perfect, popular.
2021-04-03 20:19:12 <monochrom> Networking effect trumps them all. Networking effect is better. Networking effect is more.
2021-04-03 20:20:00 <monochrom> Modula-3 etc solves the modularity problem people were having. OO solves it too, to be sure.
2021-04-03 20:20:23 <monochrom> But people have only heard of C++ and Java. They never heard of Modula-3 etc. That settled it.
2021-04-03 20:20:55 <maerwald> not our fault academics can't decide on one language
2021-04-03 20:21:43 <Clint> it's because borland didn't make a modula-3 compiler
2021-04-03 20:22:14 fendor joins (~fendor@77.119.130.232.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-04-03 20:22:18 <monochrom> :)
2021-04-03 20:22:37 <monochrom> But Borland made a Prolog compiler. That didn't fly either.
2021-04-03 20:22:39 × Tario quits (~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-03 20:22:48 <edwardk> clearly it is all jwiegley's fault for running the wrong team at borland
2021-04-03 20:23:29 <edwardk> monochrom: prolog was doomed once windows NT used it to calculate device driver loading order
2021-04-03 20:23:32 <edwardk> it peaked early
2021-04-03 20:23:47 Tario joins (~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-03 20:24:01 <int-e> . o O ( prolog needed to be pure )
2021-04-03 20:24:04 <monochrom> Wait, so is that what systemd is doing now? >:)
2021-04-03 20:24:24 <int-e> monochrom: constraint solving is alive and well
2021-04-03 20:24:37 <int-e> it just tends to be hidden
2021-04-03 20:25:00 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-04-03 20:27:56 <edwardk> int-e: i never did ask. are you named after the page fault interrupt or the one for the disk drive?
2021-04-03 20:29:12 fendor_ joins (~fendor@212095005119.public.telering.at)
2021-04-03 20:30:43 fendor__ joins (~fendor@212095005119.public.telering.at)
2021-04-03 20:30:43 × fendor__ quits (~fendor@212095005119.public.telering.at) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-03 20:30:48 × fendor_ quits (~fendor@212095005119.public.telering.at) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-03 20:31:05 fendor__ joins (~fendor@77.119.130.232.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-04-03 20:33:06 × fendor quits (~fendor@77.119.130.232.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-03 20:33:39 × paddymahoney quits (~paddymaho@cpe9050ca207f83-cm9050ca207f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-03 20:35:18 <hpc> edwardk: are you named after the guy that uploads all those haskell packages?
2021-04-03 20:37:08 <maerwald> haha
2021-04-03 20:37:40 <int-e> edwardk: neither
2021-04-03 20:37:55 × sord937 quits (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2021-04-03 20:39:44 dinciorip joins (~dincio@5.171.36.128)
2021-04-03 20:39:49 paddymahoney joins (~paddymaho@cpe9050ca207f83-cm9050ca207f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-04-03 20:39:50 × paddymahoney quits (~paddymaho@cpe9050ca207f83-cm9050ca207f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2021-04-03 20:40:02 wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-03 20:40:33 <edwardk> hpc: i met him once. it is more like a dread pirate roberts kind of thing. he showed up at my house, said 'here, this is how you upload packages' and then left.
2021-04-03 20:40:44 <edwardk> i've been trying to figure out what to do ever since.
2021-04-03 20:42:14 Franciman joins (~francesco@host-87-20-23-243.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-04-03 20:43:09 × mikoto-chan quits (~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-03 20:43:09 <hpc> he faded away like yoda?
2021-04-03 20:44:03 <geekosaur> vanished in a puff of higher-order logic?
2021-04-03 20:44:57 <int-e> but left behind a few Back to the Future puns?
2021-04-03 20:48:28 Mrbuck joins (~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
2021-04-03 20:49:31 × geekosaur quits (82650c7a@130.101.12.122) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-03 20:50:38 <int-e> (I'm still not over https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bifunctors-5.5.10/docs/Data-Bifunctor-Biff.html#t:Biff, https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bifunctors-5.5.10/docs/Data-Bifunctor-Tannen.html#t:Tannen)
2021-04-03 20:51:38 alct joins (~alct@194.37.96.82)
2021-04-03 20:51:42 <hpc> that's almost as good as hasslich = unschoen
2021-04-03 20:52:11 <int-e> hässlich *ist* unschön :)
2021-04-03 20:54:45 × Mrbuck quits (~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-03 20:54:46 × Tario quits (~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-04-03 21:17:46 fendor__ is now known as fendor
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