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2020-10-17 15:00:11 <ski> i'm not sure if the rewriting you have in mind would correspond to reducing/evaluating expressions .. or maybe you were thinking of the substitution (in the type, replacing the type variable with some other type) when specializing a polymorphic value
2020-10-17 15:00:24 → heatsink joins (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-17 15:01:43 <zincy__> The latter
2020-10-17 15:02:01 → unlink2 joins (~unlink2@p200300ebcf3c540084d3be2f13d23449.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-17 15:02:17 × da39a3ee5e6b4b0d quits (~textual@n11211935170.netvigator.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-17 15:02:50 <ski> that substitution (in the type) happens during type-checking
2020-10-17 15:03:06 <zincy__> So a nullary data/type constructor shouldn't be thought of as a function but just a plain value/type
2020-10-17 15:03:17 <zincy__> Ah ok
2020-10-17 15:03:54 <zincy__> Because I used to think of nullary constructors as functions of 0 parameters
2020-10-17 15:03:58 <ski> (you could imagine a corresponding substitution, in the implementation of e.g. `sort', that would be happening (conceptually) at run-time. it's just that with a type-erasing implementation, this would corresponds to a no-op)
2020-10-17 15:04:17 <ski> yea, all functions take exactly one argument, in Haskell
2020-10-17 15:04:31 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-17 15:04:38 <ski> if a value doesn't have a type that looks like `... -> ...', it's not a function
2020-10-17 15:04:47 <zincy__> Ah great thanks
2020-10-17 15:05:41 → Gurkenglas_ joins (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2020-10-17 15:05:47 <ski> it's another thing that, because of Haskell's non-strict semantics, you can define a value, like e.g. with `ones = 1 : ones', whose computation won't happen yet, until its result is demanded
2020-10-17 15:06:47 <ski> in a strict language, the only way to delay a computation like this, tends to be to define a function. but that's not the case in Haskell
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2020-10-17 15:07:47 × jneira_ quits (~jneira@111.red-176-83-68.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-17 15:08:14 <ski> if you want to, you could say that general values, in Haskell, can be implemented by a procedure, that, when executed/followed, will produce the demanded result (typically a data constructor, to be matched on)
2020-10-17 15:08:35 <ski> but that's an implementation detail, not a property of Haskell itself
2020-10-17 15:08:48 → jneira_ joins (~jneira@80.30.100.250)
2020-10-17 15:09:10 <ski> (but sometimes people try to express this, by saying that "everything in Haskell is a function", or something like that)
2020-10-17 15:10:01 × invaser quits (~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-10-17 15:10:37 <zincy__> So values with lazy semantics are represented by procedures which yield a value
2020-10-17 15:10:59 <zincy__> But functions are concrete values which are yielded by such procedures
2020-10-17 15:11:38 <zincy__> As in functions are specific values but in the first line I was talking about general values
2020-10-17 15:11:55 <ski> (careful to distinguish values at the level of the language, from .. i suppose, let's call them "tokens" .. at the level of the implementation)
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2020-10-17 15:13:31 × jneira_ quits (~jneira@80.30.100.250) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-17 15:16:51 <zincy__> Yeah
2020-10-17 15:17:30 → lightwave joins (uid469838@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-senxbphlukrorlpa)
2020-10-17 15:19:03 <lightwave> Hello everyone. Newbie here. Going down the Haskell highway without wearing a seat belt.
2020-10-17 15:19:05 → danvet_ joins (~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa)
2020-10-17 15:19:23 <ski> hello lightwave
2020-10-17 15:19:57 <lightwave> hi ski
2020-10-17 15:20:31 × alp_ quits (~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:417:348e:da6e:d990) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-17 15:20:37 <lightwave> Any Doom Emacs user here?
2020-10-17 15:20:38 <ski> do you have any questions, so far ?
2020-10-17 15:21:13 × petersen quits (~petersen@redhat/juhp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-17 15:21:40 <lightwave> ski, I'm trying to get my Doom Emacs Haskell LSP module setup but having a confusion in Haskell-language-server installation.
2020-10-17 15:22:04 ski hasn't tried getting LSP working
2020-10-17 15:22:33 <lightwave> It seems Haskell-langauge-server can be installed with ghcup but I came across some advice against using ghcup. Is there a way to install Haskell-language-server with Stack?
2020-10-17 15:22:37 <ski> (if you wait a bit, perhaps someone else who's tried that could give some advice)
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2020-10-17 15:22:49 <lightwave> ski, what do you use? Dante?
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2020-10-17 15:23:31 <maerwald> lightwave: what was that advice?
2020-10-17 15:23:44 <maerwald> (against using ghcup, that is)
2020-10-17 15:24:42 ski just uses basic `haskell-mode'
2020-10-17 15:25:38 <lightwave> maerwald, here is the link. https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-community/2015-September/000014.html
2020-10-17 15:26:34 <maerwald> I don't see ghcup discussed there
2020-10-17 15:26:51 × kuribas quits (~user@ptr-25vy0i8tzgojz6gquv5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-10-17 15:26:56 <maerwald> that's a post from 2015
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2020-10-17 15:27:03 <lightwave> maerwald, is ghcup not the same as 'Haskell Platform'?
2020-10-17 15:27:05 <maerwald> no
2020-10-17 15:27:35 <lightwave> So, ghcup doesn't install a global ghc and packages along with it?
2020-10-17 15:27:37 <maerwald> I don't even know what haskell platform is these days
2020-10-17 15:27:51 <maerwald> lightwave: it installs ghc and cabal into ~/.ghcup
2020-10-17 15:27:55 <maerwald> nothing else
2020-10-17 15:28:04 <lightwave> Haskell.org points Haskell Platform to ghcup.
2020-10-17 15:28:16 <lightwave> Very confusing for newbie. :-)
2020-10-17 15:28:17 <maerwald> yes, it's a mess of page redirections and confusion
2020-10-17 15:28:26 <maerwald> I raised that several times, there's no action
2020-10-17 15:28:52 × dwt quits (~dwt@c-98-200-58-177.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-10-17 15:29:47 <maerwald> https://github.com/haskell-infra/www.haskell.org/issues/12
2020-10-17 15:30:19 <lightwave> Are those libraries/packages in ~/.ghcup/ghc/8.8.4/lib/ghc-8.8.4 not going to cause potential conflicts down the road for me?
2020-10-17 15:30:39 <maerwald> no, those are always shipped with GHC, no matter how you install
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2020-10-17 15:31:13 <lightwave> I feel less stressed now. 🙂
2020-10-17 15:31:17 <maerwald> :D
2020-10-17 15:32:32 <lightwave> It drives me nut when I don't know if I'm potentially shooting myself in the foot especially when there is some voice in the Internet warning me loudly in my head.
2020-10-17 15:32:43 × fendor quits (~fendor@046124068105.public.t-mobile.at) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-17 15:32:52 <maerwald> Paranoia is a virtue
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2020-10-17 15:46:28 hackage req 3.7.0 - Easy-to-use, type-safe, expandable, high-level HTTP client library https://hackage.haskell.org/package/req-3.7.0 (mrkkrp)
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2020-10-17 15:55:26 <monochrom> How could the Internet be in your head?
2020-10-17 15:55:34 <maerwald> a terrifying thought
2020-10-17 15:56:37 × elliott_ quits (~elliott_@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-17 15:56:44 <monochrom> "The Phaaaaaaan, tom of the Internet is theeeeeeeere. In siiiiide my mind!"
2020-10-17 15:58:32 → fendor joins (~fendor@178.165.129.91.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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