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2020-10-18 20:34:55 nbloomf joins (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:706d:285c:8b0:9b3d)
2020-10-18 20:37:31 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-18 20:37:32 <monochrom> gcc does tail-call optimization when -O2 or above. To be sure, C has quite a few gotchas, so gcc is conservative about it. Still, the optimization happens with normal examples I've tried.
2020-10-18 20:38:11 <monochrom> In the Python case my recollection is Guido explicitly banned it, on ground of discouraging functional programming.
2020-10-18 20:38:57 <dolio> Yeah, gcc is a good compiler, I imagine. I don't think this discussion really applies to it, though.
2020-10-18 20:39:17 <dolio> There are other reasons you aren't doing CPS in C.
2020-10-18 20:39:33 <koz_> monochrom: Well, not his stated reason, but that was the outcome.
2020-10-18 20:39:37 <koz_> (stated reason was stack traces)
2020-10-18 20:40:30 <dolio> Maybe he should read about how to do both stack traces and good tail calls. There are decades-old papers on it.
2020-10-18 20:40:53 <koz_> dolio: Maybe, but argumentum ad serpentum, rofl.
2020-10-18 20:41:22 × perrier-jouet quits (~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-18 20:41:32 × conal quits (~conal@172.255.125.154) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2020-10-18 20:41:52 heatsink joins (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-18 20:41:55 × thir quits (~thir@p200300f27f2f0100d058ed1e9e148e98.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-18 20:42:28 hackage FunGEn 1.1 - A lightweight, cross-platform, OpenGL-based game engine. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/FunGEn-1.1 (SimonMichael)
2020-10-18 20:43:03 merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-10-18 20:43:31 <dolio> There are also papers on how to do a JVM-like security model with tail calls, so that argument also doesn't work. :)
2020-10-18 20:43:36 larou joins (5201f2b7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.1.242.183)
2020-10-18 20:43:43 <monochrom> Haha nice.
2020-10-18 20:43:47 × ephemera_ quits (~E@122.34.1.187) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-18 20:43:49 <larou> im struggling to define cons opperations on cyclic structures
2020-10-18 20:44:24 <larou> im not sure if i can construct a mapping from the structures representation to the valid cons types
2020-10-18 20:44:27 <monochrom> This is what they get for deriding "academia ivory tower".
2020-10-18 20:44:36 <koz_> dolio: Hence, argumentum ad serpentum.
2020-10-18 20:45:04 ephemera_ joins (~E@122.34.1.187)
2020-10-18 20:45:07 <larou> like, i can imagine something where i can only insert subsets of a particular shape
2020-10-18 20:45:17 <monochrom> Sorry, what is serpentum?
2020-10-18 20:45:38 <larou> eg, in a regular 2d plane, i cant just insert an extra vertex, i need to add an entire row or column at the same time
2020-10-18 20:45:46 <larou> otherwise it messes up the shape
2020-10-18 20:45:47 × stefan-__ quits (~cri@42dots.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-18 20:45:50 <koz_> monochrom: Python, snake, bad Latin.
2020-10-18 20:45:55 <monochrom> Oh hahaha
2020-10-18 20:45:59 dwt joins (~dwt@c-98-200-58-177.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
2020-10-18 20:46:10 <monochrom> Don't worry, I don't know Latin either.
2020-10-18 20:46:10 stefan-__ joins (~cri@42dots.de)
2020-10-18 20:46:13 <koz_> Relevant: https://twitter.com/KozRoss/status/1317929052477427712
2020-10-18 20:46:34 <larou> erm, so, then, if you have higher genus surfaces - then you get complicated permissible concatinations/insertions
2020-10-18 20:47:13 conal joins (~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-18 20:47:14 <monochrom> I was thinking "Cleopatra defied Octavia (future Augustus Caeser) by using a snake for suicide. Does that count as her agumentum ad serpentum against him?"
2020-10-18 20:47:23 <larou> and since these could deform the shape, eg, changing the genus - then you have a path of successive permissible insertion operator types
2020-10-18 20:47:29 <koz_> Octavia_n_.
2020-10-18 20:47:35 <koz_> 'Octavia' would be his daughter.
2020-10-18 20:47:44 <monochrom> Oh oops. I knew "ia" had to be wrong.
2020-10-18 20:47:48 <larou> and along different paths you would get different resulting shapes, and intermediate insertion types
2020-10-18 20:47:52 <dolio> I thought it was his sister.
2020-10-18 20:48:03 <koz_> dolio: Also a possibility.
2020-10-18 20:48:07 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-18 20:48:22 <dolio> I suppose it could be both.
2020-10-18 20:48:39 <dolio> Reusing names.
2020-10-18 20:49:05 <koz_> Name shadowing!
2020-10-18 20:49:08 <larou> and then, you would want to be able to determine the types of the insertion opperations, so that you could create the corresponding insertion operations as values
2020-10-18 20:49:38 × patrick1 quits (~tarpk@ool-182dc9b3.dyn.optonline.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-10-18 20:49:39 <larou> depending on which path was taken in successively altering the architecture
2020-10-18 20:49:39 × knupfer quits (~Thunderbi@i59F7FFD6.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-18 20:50:18 <larou> such as if there was a way to generate elements to insert, such as if they have defaults such as zeros (eg, a zeroed neuron)
2020-10-18 20:50:53 <larou> then a type level specification of the path taken over the branching choices of permissible insertion operator types
2020-10-18 20:51:11 <larou> could be used to construct initial values of containers of the overall resulting shape
2020-10-18 20:52:04 × zz01 quits (~xyz@210.18.180.63) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-10-18 20:52:53 <larou> for example, if i have a higher dimensional torus, then i can take a plane section through it in various ways that give bands along which elements can be inserted to preserve the shape (there needs to be 4 edges to neighbours for each vertex - so you cant just inert a verted at some point without messing up the edges)
2020-10-18 20:53:32 alp joins (~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:3c60:f5ab:1cfc:cd5)
2020-10-18 20:53:44 <larou> and eg, you could imagine adding or removing punctures to get higher genus manifolds, again with a correspondingly typed insertion opperator
2020-10-18 20:53:59 ChanServ sets mode +o monochrom
2020-10-18 20:54:03 monochrom sets mode +b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.1.242.183
2020-10-18 20:54:03 larou is kicked by monochrom (larou)
2020-10-18 20:54:10 monochrom sets mode -o monochrom
2020-10-18 20:54:30 <koz_> Wait, were they fogging?
2020-10-18 20:54:34 <monochrom> (Don't hesitate to object, if you want them back.)
2020-10-18 20:54:49 <koz_> I didn't see.
2020-10-18 20:55:27 <monochrom> HIgh similarity to fogging, yeah.
2020-10-18 20:55:43 <monochrom> has been like that for days.
2020-10-18 20:56:14 geowiesnot joins (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2020-10-18 20:56:22 <koz_> Yeah, that's definitely been a thing.
2020-10-18 20:56:37 <koz_> So what, it's now called 'larouing'?
2020-10-18 20:56:48 × steve__ quits (~quassel@ool-18b99d28.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-18 20:56:49 × steve_ quits (~quassel@ool-18b99d28.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-18 20:57:03 <monochrom> I think "fogging" it is. Like "xeroxing" even when you use a Canon. :)
2020-10-18 20:57:03 steve_ joins (~quassel@ool-18b99d28.dyn.optonline.net)
2020-10-18 20:57:03 steve__ joins (~quassel@ool-18b99d28.dyn.optonline.net)
2020-10-18 20:57:08 × dhil quits (~dhil@78.156.97.38) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-18 20:57:27 <koz_> monochrom: Sure, can dig.
2020-10-18 20:57:56 dftxbs3e joins (~dftxbs3e@unaffiliated/dftxbs3e)
2020-10-18 20:59:26 × ephemera_ quits (~E@122.34.1.187) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2020-10-18 21:00:02 × chief19831 quits (~chief1983@178.162.204.238) ()
2020-10-18 21:00:48 <Buntspecht> What does "fogging" refers to here?
2020-10-18 21:00:56 ephemera_ joins (~E@122.34.1.187)
2020-10-18 21:01:37 <monochrom> You would have to look through past IRC logs (eg the urls in the channel topic) and look for the nick "fog".
2020-10-18 21:02:07 × mananamenos__ quits (~mananamen@vpn237-247.vpns.upv.es) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-18 21:02:19 <monochrom> I guess TLDR they mistook #haskell for personal twitter/blog.
2020-10-18 21:02:34 <Uniaika> I another guy who does that
2020-10-18 21:02:42 <Uniaika> day-long monologues
2020-10-18 21:03:06 <Buntspecht> Oh, I thought it's a specifc term for some kind of bad activity :p
2020-10-18 21:03:07 perrier-jouet joins (~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
2020-10-18 21:03:09 gioyik joins (~gioyik@190.67.155.46)
2020-10-18 21:03:13 <Buntspecht> like "spamming"
2020-10-18 21:03:18 <dolio> It is. :)
2020-10-18 21:03:29 <koz_> It's a specific form of spamming.
2020-10-18 21:03:34 <koz_> (a subtype, a dare say)
2020-10-18 21:03:40 <dolio> Named after the perpetrator.
2020-10-18 21:03:41 <koz_> s/a /I /
2020-10-18 21:04:17 <Rembane> I'm considering building a larou-fog-bot and putting it in a very lonely chat room.

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