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2020-11-16 18:09:12 → coot joins (~coot@37.30.49.253.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2020-11-16 18:10:42 × boxscape quits (54a35f37@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.95.55) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2020-11-16 18:30:36 <sm[m]> people making "normal" (non-AAA, non-huge) games have said even the standard GC was not a problem
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2020-11-16 18:48:09 <edwardk> merijn: i figure if i'm going to write a game in haskell i'm probably aiming for 30fps and doing a bit of lerping over the last two physics frames (using an approach by gafferongames) to try to hit anything higher.
2020-11-16 18:48:50 <merijn> edwardk: I'd probably consider is an excuse to finally learn Rust :p
2020-11-16 18:48:59 <edwardk> Martinsos: for 2d, especially with fairly tightly designed game logic and an eye towards unboxing you'll likely be okay
2020-11-16 18:49:33 × p-core quits (~Thunderbi@2001:718:1e03:5128:2ab7:7f35:48a1:8515) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-16 18:49:55 → vacm joins (~vacwm@70.23.92.191)
2020-11-16 18:50:19 <edwardk> merijn: heh i was working on a toy project to do something in a browser and was going to drive it with ghcjs, so i first stopped and wrote the most optimized version of the basic code path i could in javascript to see if i could even get the gc pauses down to an acceptable level. then i never got around to writing the haskell version.
2020-11-16 18:50:41 <edwardk> and then davean decided to do something else anyways so it died =P
2020-11-16 18:50:42 × LKoen quits (~LKoen@9.253.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-16 18:51:09 → motherfsck joins (~motherfsc@unaffiliated/motherfsck)
2020-11-16 18:51:16 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-16 18:52:23 <edwardk> hah, it still runs. http://ekmett.github.io/arcade/static/ loads in chrome, wasd, 1-9 spawns stuff, 0 wipes it all out, mouse grabs, q/e raises lowers what you have grabbed. c and b show some debugging info, the menus are basically nonsense.
2020-11-16 18:52:37 <edwardk> iirc it doesn't work in firefox
2020-11-16 18:52:49 <bollu> does anyone have references to haskell codebases other than GHC that do a lot of analysis / transformations on an AST?
2020-11-16 18:53:40 <merijn> bollu: "literally every compiler written in Haskell"? ;)
2020-11-16 18:53:45 <bollu> merijn yes, which ones? ;)
2020-11-16 18:53:50 <bollu> ermine doesn't do many transformations
2020-11-16 18:54:00 <merijn> What does Idris do?
2020-11-16 18:54:06 <davean> edwardk: ... that causes 'lens'
2020-11-16 18:54:08 <edwardk> especially in the haskell codebase that we never finished
2020-11-16 18:54:09 <bollu> good question. I should check
2020-11-16 18:54:22 <davean> edwardk: The project litterly became 'lens' and there was no way lens was getting done in time :-p
2020-11-16 18:54:43 <edwardk> davean: nah, lens was done first. the game engine lens came out of was ~5 years before this
2020-11-16 18:54:52 <edwardk> THAT one wasn't getting done on time =)
2020-11-16 18:55:03 <merijn> edwardk: I think games pretty much the only reason I'd use Rust, because for the rest of the stuff I ever write GHC's GC is perfectly fine :p
2020-11-16 18:55:07 <bollu> hm seems like idris2 is self hosted
2020-11-16 18:55:17 <bollu> so I gotta read the original idris if I want to get a sense of Haskellisms
2020-11-16 18:55:23 <edwardk> but yeah. rust has me super jealous at times. i look at makepad and weep.
2020-11-16 18:55:45 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-16 18:55:49 → Deide joins (~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2020-11-16 18:56:04 <davean> I'm sad at the state of wasm, particularly because its the new JVM
2020-11-16 18:56:07 <merijn> bollu: Agda? But that's not very optimising I guess?
2020-11-16 18:56:08 → vicfred joins (~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
2020-11-16 18:56:14 <edwardk> https://makepad.nl/ is written in rust, as an editor for rust, compiling to either native of web assembly, renders using shaders compiled from rust...
2020-11-16 18:56:21 <davean> I strongly back having a good wasm backend soon.
2020-11-16 18:56:41 × britva quits (~britva@31-10-157-156.cgn.dynamic.upc.ch) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2020-11-16 18:56:59 <edwardk> the idealized form of a haskell version of the same thing would be a ratsnest of EDSLs that aren't quite up to the same task
2020-11-16 18:57:27 → Ariakenom joins (~Ariakenom@h-82-196-111-82.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2020-11-16 18:57:31 <davean> Yah, rust has a MUCH better compilation story.
2020-11-16 18:57:34 <edwardk> heck, the makepad stuff can even use webxr to render as a vr scene at this point
2020-11-16 18:58:02 <merijn> davean: Their compile times seem to be about as bad as GHC, though :p
2020-11-16 18:58:08 <davean> merijn: eh, so what?
2020-11-16 18:58:10 → machinedgod joins (~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2020-11-16 18:58:13 <edwardk> merijn: idris 2 has much better compile times
2020-11-16 18:58:27 <edwardk> or do you mean rust?
2020-11-16 18:58:32 <merijn> edwardk: Wait, we were talking about Rust, no?
2020-11-16 18:58:44 <edwardk> ah, thought you might be replying to bollu still
2020-11-16 18:58:45 → jamm_ joins (~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2020-11-16 18:58:55 <davean> merijn: I'd be happy to give GHC a few CPU-months if I could get 10% better optimization.
2020-11-16 18:58:59 <merijn> davean: I'm an ADHD millenial, I ain't got the patience for that >.<
2020-11-16 18:59:15 <bollu> merijn yeah, I don't think Agda "does much" with the AST. I could be wrong
2020-11-16 18:59:52 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-11-16 19:00:13 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-11-16 19:00:15 <davean> merijn: --pay-for-it-to-be-faster $2000
2020-11-16 19:00:41 <merijn> davean: I'm a millenial, I ain't got any money ;)
2020-11-16 19:00:47 → Tario joins (~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2020-11-16 19:01:00 × jespada quits (~jespada@90.254.245.49) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-11-16 19:01:03 <davean> merijn: not if you pay for the hosts to run slow code you won't!
2020-11-16 19:01:26 <edwardk> davean: i'm still working on that fungibility of compilation performance story =P
2020-11-16 19:01:28 <monochrom> Oh haha great, in-compiler purchase, "us$0.99 for 1 percentile speedup"
2020-11-16 19:01:44 × geekosaur quits (82659a09@host154-009.vpn.uakron.edu) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-11-16 19:01:49 <merijn> davean: See, I've got a super good lifehack to work around that!
2020-11-16 19:02:01 <monochrom> The best of both worlds of FOSS and capitalism. Thanks merijn for the great idea. >:)
2020-11-16 19:02:05 <merijn> davean: I just don't host or run any code, because of the aforementioned lack of money ;)
2020-11-16 19:02:33 <davean> What annoys me is when type checking gets slow.
2020-11-16 19:02:35 <edwardk> monochrom: if we have to compile in the cloud and try a rather non-trivial number of constructions using lots of machines that isn't actually an unreasonable approach. it has been kind of my mental model for a while now.
2020-11-16 19:02:43 <davean> I very rarely want to compile my code, I often want to type check it.
2020-11-16 19:03:12 × berberman quits (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-11-16 19:03:21 <dolio> It sounds unreasonable to me.
2020-11-16 19:03:23 <edwardk> "how do i spin up 10k machines on tasks like program synthesis and verification and spend them efficiently?" is very much in my line of research.
2020-11-16 19:03:37 → berberman joins (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
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