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2020-10-02 14:40:54 → PotatoHatsue joins (berbermanp@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lcuapfbpkatzswxh)
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2020-10-02 14:40:54 koankeeper_ is now known as koankeeper
2020-10-02 14:41:16 × Alleria_ quits (~AllahuAkb@2604:2000:1484:26:59c0:566a:2725:87ae) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:41:16 × themsay[m] quits (themsaymat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-yeakmiacdwmqfqaq) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:41:23 <dolio> :)
2020-10-02 14:41:23 × st8less quits (~st8less@2603:a060:11fd:0:6883:ccc4:e325:916a) (Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2020-10-02 14:41:25 → pent joins (sid313808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mbwahawoqthelmme)
2020-10-02 14:41:29 <Taneb> (I made the mistake of learning Haskell in 2011-ish, and only learning what a burrito is a while later)
2020-10-02 14:41:31 → Alleria_ joins (~AllahuAkb@2604:2000:1484:26:49a5:3539:b389:fbc6)
2020-10-02 14:41:35 <Taneb> (it's not all that much like a monad)
2020-10-02 14:41:48 → simony joins (sid226116@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dvavqmtzwqiayfvm)
2020-10-02 14:41:50 → glowcoil joins (sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pkehsujwjkxhciwt)
2020-10-02 14:42:02 × mpickering_ quits (sid78412@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-slbcncolvglbtszb) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:42:03 <Guest18> I'm now gonna look over the link hc sent with the tutorial. Fingers crossed that i understand it
2020-10-02 14:42:06 → kyagrd__ joins (sid102627@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btmubwofxuaipgll)
2020-10-02 14:42:07 <ski> xsperry : heh, my notion of "effect" includes every monad we can express computationally
2020-10-02 14:42:21 <ski> Guest18 : how much of basic Haskell do you understand ?
2020-10-02 14:42:33 × J_Arcane quits (sid119274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gzsviusepohntufp) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:43:12 <dolio> ski: Is completion of the rationals to the reals an effect?
2020-10-02 14:43:16 × typetetris quits (sid275937@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cpqzcabctkypxzuf) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:43:20 → iinuwa1 joins (iinuwamatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kbcyykvavbzbuwyo)
2020-10-02 14:43:23 → themsay[m] joins (themsaymat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rdynrutjzsdvufmx)
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2020-10-02 14:44:20 → typetetris joins (sid275937@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arltcnyiruapbdou)
2020-10-02 14:44:22 <Guest18> Well, I know about types, type classes, creating new types and their constructors, currying, pattern-matching, modules, Maybe. Most recently I've read about maps and sets
2020-10-02 14:44:37 × jetpack_joe quits (sid146137@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-towxguynprtcozxt) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:44:37 × Boarders quits (sid425905@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogfzkwsrdtarvanw) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:45:19 → heatsink joins (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-02 14:45:46 <Guest18> ski: Is that enough to understand monads?
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2020-10-02 14:46:10 × cemerick quits (sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pdxhruraknqcvldm) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:46:10 × ft quits (~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:46:57 → ft joins (~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de)
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2020-10-02 14:47:23 <tbreslein> personally, I've only learned about monads after learning about Semigroup, Monoid, Functor, and Applicative, which sounds like a lot, but they all flow into each other, and Monad is basically 5th element of that list
2020-10-02 14:47:23 → avdb joins (~avdb@ip-213-49-123-208.dsl.scarlet.be)
2020-10-02 14:47:26 <jollygood2> Guest18_, do you know how to deconstruct do to >>=?
2020-10-02 14:47:35 → psydruid joins (psydruidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zmirtmcuzxwhvczz)
2020-10-02 14:47:52 <jollygood2> can you write your own Maybe-like or list-like type and write monad instance for it?
2020-10-02 14:48:16 × ski quits (~ski@129.16.53.148) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-02 14:48:24 → ski joins (~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se)
2020-10-02 14:49:13 <Guest18> jollygood2: I haven't learned about do, >>=. I know how to write the Maybe type, but nothing about the monad instance for it
2020-10-02 14:49:34 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:49:48 <jollygood2> Guest18, you do'nt know about do-syntax yet?
2020-10-02 14:50:16 → alp joins (~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:6d5a:70ac:290e:8fbe)
2020-10-02 14:50:18 × koankeeper quits (sid216950@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqrzlezfaoiawuvb) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:50:18 × nbloomf quits (~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:41ee:e0ba:d692:129) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:50:24 × cpressey quits (~cpressey@88.144.70.46) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:50:47 <ski> dolio : probably
2020-10-02 14:50:50 <Guest18> jollygood2: no
2020-10-02 14:51:13 → koankeeper joins (sid216950@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nrfuvoaktiahyvtf)
2020-10-02 14:51:23 <Guest18> I know about 'let ... in ...'. Is it something like that?
2020-10-02 14:51:25 <ski> knowing `do' is not a prerequisite
2020-10-02 14:52:02 <ski> Guest18 : well, you certainly know more (things that a relevant) than some people who're asking about monads, then
2020-10-02 14:52:05 <jollygood2> no, but it shows where he's at in his journey to learn haskell
2020-10-02 14:52:08 → sureyeaah joins (shauryab98@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hoohggsnwpuhljzi)
2020-10-02 14:52:40 → Saukk joins (~Saukk@2001:998:f1:3966:96a6:dee2:2e9:fdf3)
2020-10-02 14:52:41 → Boarders joins (sid425905@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kltbqwzwpqsqtnup)
2020-10-02 14:53:46 <ski> Guest18 : i'd say learn `Functor' first, at least. probably also `Applicative' is a good idea, now that it's a superclass of `Monad'. and having seen `Monoid' (and `Semigroup') shouldn't hurt (although is probably not as essential)
2020-10-02 14:53:54 × cfricke quits (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-02 14:54:31 <Guest18> jollygood2: well, i consider myself very much a beginner. As soon as i look over someone else's code, my lack of language knowledge becomes apparent immediately
2020-10-02 14:55:11 <ski> Guest18 : anyway, a good way to learn about monads is to first learn about particular monads, like `Maybe', list, `Either e', `Writer w', `Reader r', `State s', `Cont o', ..
2020-10-02 14:55:12 × livvy quits (~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-10-02 14:57:59 <ski> Guest18 : you could say monads are a kind of design pattern; or a way to avoid certain kinds of boiler-plate (/ repetitive) code; or akin to an abstract data type interface, which could be implemented in different ways (compare with "queue", you could have different implementations of queues). but that doesn't really tell you what a monad is, in particular
2020-10-02 14:58:03 × mikr[m] quits (mikrdavral@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-iihzpvcobeurnjqm) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:58:05 <Guest18> ski: I can't help but notice some of those sound like group theory from algebra. Like you know, a monoid has certain composition operators, that must be commutative, associative and so on. Can't remember the exact conditions, it has been some time since 12th, but then you had groups, rings. I wonder how do those relate to the things you mentioned
2020-10-02 14:58:28 hackage machines 0.7.1 - Networked stream transducers https://hackage.haskell.org/package/machines-0.7.1 (ryanglscott)
2020-10-02 14:58:34 × teehemkay_ quits (sid14792@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-baurjicxngheqyla) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-02 14:58:39 <dolio> Well, if you know about group theory...
2020-10-02 14:58:41 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-02 14:58:45 <ski> yes, a monoid is "a group that doesn't have to have inverses"
2020-10-02 14:59:21 → mikr[m] joins (mikrdavral@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vlcvbwznoqddmtij)
2020-10-02 14:59:37 <ski> e.g. keeping a running counter, or a running sum, or appending messages to a log, would have to do with monoids
2020-10-02 14:59:53 <Guest18> My math professor in highschool used to say that the real numbers wanted to insult the naturals, and told them, "You are not a group, you are a monoid". Sounds funnier in Romanian..
2020-10-02 15:00:02 × mota quits (~mota@89.47.234.28) ()
2020-10-02 15:00:17 <ski> a semigroup is "a monoid that doesn't need to have a neutral element". e.g. computing minimum or maximum
2020-10-02 15:00:23 → teehemkay_ joins (sid14792@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hzwbijcgsbcqqaio)
2020-10-02 15:00:40 <ski> (every group is also a monoid, and every monoid is also a semigroup)
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2020-10-02 15:01:21 <Guest18> Then it was "You are just a monoid" :)
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