Logs: freenode/#haskell
| 2020-10-05 14:07:50 | <gentauro> | s/convert/derive/ |
| 2020-10-05 14:07:57 | <dolio> | I think they decided long ago that it was easier to just make GHC handle the illegal declarations than to hack them in. |
| 2020-10-05 14:08:41 | → | spew joins (uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zoqmilcrntqznxpj) |
| 2020-10-05 14:09:01 | <dminuoso> | And then have their users tell customers to just go for Agda if they wanted custom mixfix, while using it themselves! |
| 2020-10-05 14:09:51 | → | Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2020-10-05 14:10:05 | <dolio> | Well, it still needs to be special cased. |
| 2020-10-05 14:10:27 | → | solonarv joins (~solonarv@astrasbourg-653-1-252-112.w92-161.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2020-10-05 14:10:28 | <dolio> | It's probably just less special cases. |
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| 2020-10-05 14:11:51 | <noctux> | "Manuel says: Including one more declaration gives a segmentation fault." |
| 2020-10-05 14:12:01 | <noctux> | good to know :P |
| 2020-10-05 14:12:30 | <dminuoso> | noctux: Amusingly it was never discovered why |
| 2020-10-05 14:12:36 | <dminuoso> | The bug could still be there. |
| 2020-10-05 14:13:23 | <dminuoso> | Rather than identifying memory corruption, it was deemed easier to comment them out and hope for the best. :p |
| 2020-10-05 14:14:16 | × | xerox_ quits (~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2020-10-05 14:14:32 | <Squarism> | jackdk. Sorry, work happened. I want users of the library be able to write a their own type that we can call TheirType. It must only contain the allowed elements and nodes need to be of a certain type. I want to use TH to to generate the posted datastructure from TheirType. That will later be used to create a serializable index to parts of the datastructure. I need it to be serializable so I can send it over the wire. |
| 2020-10-05 14:14:40 | <noctux> | till the day of the 63 element tuple appears :p |
| 2020-10-05 14:16:07 | <Squarism> | jackdk, or the structure I posted is something I know I can construct a serializable index for. |
| 2020-10-05 14:16:30 | <Squarism> | as in paths to leafs in the datastructe. |
| 2020-10-05 14:16:50 | → | jgt1 joins (~jgt@78.26.168.236) |
| 2020-10-05 14:20:21 | <shapr> | yay, #haskell 20th anniversary is in 30 weeks! |
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| 2020-10-05 14:36:31 | <Cheery> | I just got to examining how relax NG works and wow that thing is named badly. |
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| 2020-10-05 14:38:12 | <Cheery> | well maybe it signifies the problem in HTML5 and pals. |
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| 2020-10-05 14:41:53 | <fog23> | i tried c# the other day, they dont even have sum types!? |
| 2020-10-05 14:42:22 | <shapr> | we got sum type |
| 2020-10-05 14:42:39 | <dminuoso> | Most languages dont have sum types... |
| 2020-10-05 14:42:39 | <fog23> | they were saying "dont use haskell - you wont be able to get a job" and i was like - but i can actually express programs!! |
| 2020-10-05 14:42:53 | <dminuoso> | Or very poor support for mimicing. |
| 2020-10-05 14:43:08 | <dminuoso> | Pythonistas get away by just using dictionaries everywhere. |
| 2020-10-05 14:43:17 | <davve> | stark contrast between C# and haskell |
| 2020-10-05 14:43:30 | <fog23> | yeah, i eventually managed to write maybe using somehting like "enums and generic classes" but it was a total mess |
| 2020-10-05 14:44:31 | <fog23> | and, it did not seem like it was even worth trying to do "generics" as they call it - basically polymorphic type restrictions |
| 2020-10-05 14:44:44 | <fog23> | where it would need eg a list of types at type level |
| 2020-10-05 14:44:47 | <dolio> | If you need to do .net stuff, it's probably worth looking at F#. |
| 2020-10-05 14:44:58 | <fog23> | i could hardely even *write* a list!! |
| 2020-10-05 14:45:28 | <fog23> | dolio: the closet thing to .net i ever thought of using was node |
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| 2020-10-05 14:46:00 | <[exa]> | fog23: luckily for you, c# has auto-maybe on almost everything! |
| 2020-10-05 14:46:07 | <Uniaika> | [exa]: hahahaha |
| 2020-10-05 14:46:11 | <Cheery> | I'd love to bash C#, but it's bit of stale because it's too easy. |
| 2020-10-05 14:46:18 | <fog23> | they kept shouting at me for trying to use a "cons list" instead of their built in version |
| 2020-10-05 14:46:46 | <fog23> | [exa] i only wanted maybe to write list... |
| 2020-10-05 14:47:15 | <fog23> | List a = Maybe (a,List a) |
| 2020-10-05 14:47:24 | <fog23> | (they have pairs at least) |
| 2020-10-05 14:48:17 | <fog23> | it just left me totally exasperated. how can this be a more industrially applicable language than haskell!? |
| 2020-10-05 14:48:27 | <dminuoso> | 16:46:18 fog23 | they kept shouting at me for trying to use a "cons list" instead of their built in version |
| 2020-10-05 14:48:34 | <dminuoso> | You insist on not following a language idioms. |
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| 2020-10-05 14:48:49 | <dminuoso> | There's little value in being thickheaded and trying to write C# as if it were Haskell |
| 2020-10-05 14:49:11 | <fog23> | everything i understand is built around get/set ! i worked for a full year just on the traverse class |
| 2020-10-05 14:49:25 | × | balbirs quits (~balbirs__@ozlabs.org) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2020-10-05 14:49:41 | <fog23> | the idea of not even being able to *express* a cons list made my skin crawl |
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| 2020-10-05 14:49:54 | <dminuoso> | And "industrially applicable" depends on factors such as "how well is the implementation", "how stable it is it", "how much tooling do you have", "how is library support for your problem domain", "how many developers can you easily get" |
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| 2020-10-05 14:50:28 | <dminuoso> | And for what its worth, .net has linked lists. |
| 2020-10-05 14:50:32 | <fog23> | i was trying to justify why a cons list is so important |
| 2020-10-05 14:50:39 | <dminuoso> | They are doubly linked, but oh well |
| 2020-10-05 14:50:52 | <fog23> | i guess thats what industry would need to understand - i hadnt realised what a large difference there was |
| 2020-10-05 14:51:07 | <fog23> | and that the fundamental stunbling block would be something as simple as sum types |
| 2020-10-05 14:51:08 | <dolio> | They're probably mutable linked lists, so you have to be careful what you do with them. |
| 2020-10-05 14:51:17 | <dminuoso> | Im willing to argue that cons lists are not even so important in other languages. |
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| 2020-10-05 14:51:34 | <fog23> | right, but why are they so useful to us |
| 2020-10-05 14:51:38 | <fog23> | that more to the point |
| 2020-10-05 14:51:50 | <fog23> | that would be "why should industry use haskell" |
| 2020-10-05 14:51:51 | <dminuoso> | We encode control flow in lists |
| 2020-10-05 14:52:00 | <dminuoso> | Other languages just do some imperative take with a for-loop. |
| 2020-10-05 14:52:01 | <fog23> | but why is that better |
| 2020-10-05 14:52:28 | <dminuoso> | Well, its only better because we've built an entire eco system around the idea. |
| 2020-10-05 14:52:29 | <fog23> | i began trying to talk about higher order functions |
| 2020-10-05 14:52:41 | <dminuoso> | Let's take C++ for instance |
| 2020-10-05 14:52:57 | <fog23> | and about the ubiquity of the church state duality - but i dont think they were ready |
| 2020-10-05 14:53:04 | <dminuoso> | Looping over things in C++ requires using iterators |
| 2020-10-05 14:53:09 | <dminuoso> | Or manual for loops |
| 2020-10-05 14:53:14 | × | heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2020-10-05 14:53:30 | <fog23> | i mean, what can we *do* with our "enhanced ecosystem" |
| 2020-10-05 14:54:01 | <dminuoso> | Does it matter? The relevant point is, trying to transport "the idea that florishes in Haskell" and "insisting it must be useful in another language because its useful in Haskell" is a very poor start. |
| 2020-10-05 14:54:10 | × | ryansmccoy quits (~ryansmcco@156.96.151.132) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2020-10-05 14:54:15 | <fog23> | i just take the "style" for granted, and not actually being able to understand how they can do anything at all without GADTs and tail recursion - i couldnt easily say why haskell was better |
| 2020-10-05 14:54:34 | <dminuoso> | Most of the time, its better to just accept the other languages paradigms, and write idiomatic (in their language) code instead. |
| 2020-10-05 14:54:46 | <dminuoso> | The code ends up less convoluted and more maintainable |
| 2020-10-05 14:54:48 | <dminuoso> | Strangely |
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