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2020-10-14 16:06:04 × acidjnk_new quits (~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237896b056d7f56d23f214.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2020-10-14 16:19:37 <hseg> merijn: ok, finally managed to bash things into the appropriate shape
2020-10-14 16:19:44 <hseg> let's see how long it takes it
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2020-10-14 16:33:27 hackage tasty-ant-xml 1.1.7 - Render tasty output to XML for Jenkins https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-ant-xml-1.1.7 (OliverCharles)
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2020-10-14 16:48:39 <kamek> to convert my own datatypes to and from Data.Text, is there a typeclass I should implement ? Or do people simply write plain functions
2020-10-14 16:49:22 <monochrom> Just write plain functions.
2020-10-14 16:49:57 <sim590> kamek: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10988253/is-there-an-equivalent-of-the-show-typeclass-for-data-text
2020-10-14 16:50:18 <sim590> I know that it's 6 years old though.
2020-10-14 16:50:58 lemmih_ is now known as lemmih
2020-10-14 16:51:13 <monochrom> The problem with "a type class like Show" is that everyone wants it to do something slightly different, even for the same type. And it shows. (Pun!)
2020-10-14 16:51:35 <kamek> :p
2020-10-14 16:51:52 <monochrom> Some people want Show to stand for debugging output, some other want it to stand for user-facing output. Well they are in conflict.
2020-10-14 16:51:59 <kamek> same for deserializing I assume ?
2020-10-14 16:52:30 <monochrom> Oh deserialising is yet another different thing people want Show to stand for, too.
2020-10-14 16:53:09 × nyd quits (~lpy@unaffiliated/elysian) (Quit: nyd)
2020-10-14 16:53:15 <dolio> Serializing to Show output is a clear bad idea, though.
2020-10-14 16:53:51 → nineonine joins (~nineonine@216.81.48.202)
2020-10-14 16:54:18 <Uniaika> whereas having a simple set of rules like "Show is Read's counterpart, Debug/Inspect is for debugging output" <- now we don't try to shoehorn every usecase in one typeclass!
2020-10-14 16:54:59 × conal quits (~conal@107.181.166.111) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2020-10-14 16:55:25 <monochrom> Yes I would support having multiple standard-endorsed classes, so one single class doesn't get too overloaded (pun!). For example look at Rust, it has two.
2020-10-14 16:56:34 <monochrom> But human nature is "I want one simple standard, and it does what I want".
2020-10-14 16:56:50 <Uniaika> monochrom: we need to form a coallition to upstream a Debug/Inspect for that kind of things
2020-10-14 16:57:14 <Uniaika> monochrom: nah, human nature is dead for a while now. "Human Nature" is now what your marketing is making people thing their nature is
2020-10-14 16:57:43 × snakemas1 quits (~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-14 16:57:45 <monochrom> My opinion is that the stance "Show gives you valid Haskell syntax" is conceived out of the intersection of debugging output and serialization.
2020-10-14 16:58:38 <dolio> I don't think it really makes much sense to push for Show/Read to be anything but the debug-ish one, really. The majority of instances are going to be derived according to the mechanical procedure that isn't good for user-facing display, and you can't automatically derive a good user-facing display.
2020-10-14 16:59:39 <monochrom> Outputting Haskell syntax is sufficient, but not necessary, for debugging output purposes. For many types, there are nicer formats than Haskell syntax. For example my students agree that for tree types "deriving Show" is less readable than any homebrew format.
2020-10-14 16:59:39 <dsal> When you can read what you show, you make a lot of things a lot easier. I used to make clever user-friendly Show instances until I head to deal with someone else's.
2020-10-14 16:59:54 <maerwald> Show and read may be whatever you want, if you control the data (and as such, the instance definition)
2020-10-14 17:00:07 → conal joins (~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-14 17:00:14 <monochrom> Outputting Haskell syntax is also sufficient, but not necessary, for serialization. Clearly there are more efficient formats.
2020-10-14 17:00:46 <monochrom> BUT! If you want the debugging camp and the serialization camp to both agree on one format, it's Haskell syntax.
2020-10-14 17:01:16 <Uniaika> + a pretty-printing package like pretty-simple
2020-10-14 17:01:35 <Uniaika> :P
2020-10-14 17:01:54 <dolio> Every time people invent fancy formatting for the debug output, they leave out important information that I eventually want when debugging, in my experience.
2020-10-14 17:02:18 <dolio> So I just want to see the actually Haskell value.
2020-10-14 17:03:23 <maerwald> meh, show could have been: show :: Style -> a -> String
2020-10-14 17:03:36 <maerwald> data Style = Debug | Serial | Pretty
2020-10-14 17:04:04 × conal quits (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2020-10-14 17:04:07 → Saukk joins (~Saukk@2001:998:f9:2914:1c59:9bb5:b94c:4)
2020-10-14 17:04:23 <geekosaur> except someone will come up with a fourth
2020-10-14 17:04:30 <monochrom> You should that a type-level, not term-level, parameter. >:)
2020-10-14 17:04:39 <monochrom> s/should/should make/
2020-10-14 17:04:42 <maerwald> now we need open variants, easy
2020-10-14 17:04:51 → ensyde joins (~ensyde@2600:1702:2e30:1a40:f09c:a012:516e:b253)
2020-10-14 17:05:19 <monochrom> Oh, type-level is open, too.
2020-10-14 17:05:25 <Uniaika> with a sprinkle of type apps
2020-10-14 17:05:39 <monochrom> show :: (ShowStyle s, Show a) => s -> a -> String
2020-10-14 17:05:57 hackage uniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.12.3.1 - Usage examples for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.12.3.1 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-10-14 17:06:04 <monochrom> How do you like that monster? >:)
2020-10-14 17:06:36 <monochrom> err
2020-10-14 17:06:43 <monochrom> show :: (ShowStyle s, Show a) => Proxy s -> a -> String
2020-10-14 17:08:57 <geekosaur> don't forget Text :)
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