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2020-11-21 15:01:15 <merijn> zyklotomic: Have you ever worked on code locally and tried to reproduce that environment on another machine?
2020-11-21 15:01:38 <merijn> It's so bad everyone now just uses dockers, because it's easier to just copy your entire machine then figuring out how to package/distribute things
2020-11-21 15:01:39 <zyklotomic> yeah, nix
2020-11-21 15:02:19 <zyklotomic> i was on that boat too until nixOS
2020-11-21 15:02:24 <zyklotomic> or is that a different issue
2020-11-21 15:02:35 <zyklotomic> have you heard of nix?
2020-11-21 15:02:37 <merijn> zyklotomic: Right, but the reason Nix works is the same thing cabal insists on
2020-11-21 15:02:38 <et09> i need to fully wipe my stack installation i think
2020-11-21 15:02:47 <merijn> zyklotomic: "rigidly specify exactly everything you depend on"
2020-11-21 15:02:59 <zyklotomic> wait pip doesn't?
2020-11-21 15:03:07 <merijn> zyklotomic: Which is the exact thing people complain about
2020-11-21 15:03:11 <et09> getting these errors like uh, ghc failed a sanity check, cannot find snapshot
2020-11-21 15:03:15 <zyklotomic> that's kinda shocking, I never realized
2020-11-21 15:03:20 <merijn> et09: eh...that's bad :D
2020-11-21 15:03:24 <et09> but deleting .stack, .ghc, /usr/local/bin/stack doesn't seem like enough
2020-11-21 15:04:08 <Uniaika> peculiar
2020-11-21 15:04:09 <et09> my core problem is that i'm trying to install a recompile-able xmonad + xmobar + xmonad-contrib + xmonad-utils
2020-11-21 15:04:16 <Uniaika> HAHAHA
2020-11-21 15:04:18 <Uniaika> :D
2020-11-21 15:04:26 <merijn> zyklotomic: If you manually install something into your virtualenv (another massive hack!), pip will happily let you use it without you adding it to requirements.txt
2020-11-21 15:04:40 <et09> i.e. xmonad --recompile
2020-11-21 15:05:30 <zyklotomic> merijn: i've kinda forgotten it works that way
2020-11-21 15:06:27 <zyklotomic> like manually installing, declaratively installing gives such a peace of mind
2020-11-21 15:06:59 <merijn> v2-build is lightyears ahead of pip/virtualenv/npm :)
2020-11-21 15:07:46 <zyklotomic> i *think* cargo also uses this saner behavior
2020-11-21 15:08:16 → Lycurgus joins (~niemand@cpe-45-46-142-188.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2020-11-21 15:08:20 <sondr3_> Cargo is really nice, my absolute favorite package manager
2020-11-21 15:08:46 <zyklotomic> i like rustc more than i like cargo, not that it is bad
2020-11-21 15:08:54 <zyklotomic> the enumerated warnings are really user friendly
2020-11-21 15:09:13 → kamilbeker joins (~czwartyeo@77-45-55-99.sta.asta-net.com.pl)
2020-11-21 15:10:18 <sondr3_> My favorite part of using Rust is that with rustup I get a package manager, formatter, linter and auto-updating all in one
2020-11-21 15:10:53 × kamilbeker quits (~czwartyeo@77-45-55-99.sta.asta-net.com.pl) (Client Quit)
2020-11-21 15:10:58 <zyklotomic> rustup is really nice, even with nixos, i still prefer rustup
2020-11-21 15:11:13 → czwartye1 joins (~czwartyeo@77-45-55-99.sta.asta-net.com.pl)
2020-11-21 15:11:19 <merijn> boo to autoformatters
2020-11-21 15:11:30 × czwartye1 quits (~czwartyeo@77-45-55-99.sta.asta-net.com.pl) (Client Quit)
2020-11-21 15:11:46 <zyklotomic> my first experience with autoformatters was Go
2020-11-21 15:11:48 → czwartye1 joins (~czwartyeo@77-45-55-99.sta.asta-net.com.pl)
2020-11-21 15:11:49 <zyklotomic> and I thought I was crazy
2020-11-21 15:11:55 <yushyin> with ghcup we ahve a similar toolchain installer
2020-11-21 15:11:56 <zyklotomic> or going bonkers
2020-11-21 15:12:05 <sondr3_> Yay to autoformatters, now I don't have to think about formatting and the whole ecosystem feels much more cohesive
2020-11-21 15:12:13 <merijn> My argument against autoformatters: https://twitter.com/comerijn/status/1257804634833420292
2020-11-21 15:12:42 × czwartyeon quits (4d2d3763@77-45-55-99.sta.asta-net.com.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-21 15:12:52 <merijn> "not thinking about formatting" is just as bad as "not thinking about naming"
2020-11-21 15:12:52 <zyklotomic> that's valid, though i'll give Go a free pass
2020-11-21 15:12:57 × alp quits (~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:49a7:8d86:1a2b:64a5) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-21 15:13:16 <merijn> It's on brand for Go
2020-11-21 15:13:28 <sondr3_> I see both sides, I personally don't care, I like not having to think about it
2020-11-21 15:13:38 <hpc> my first experience with autoformatters was java, where to be fair, i wasn't thinking about naming either :P
2020-11-21 15:13:40 <Feuermagier> how do I zipWith, but only with one of the arguments changeing?
2020-11-21 15:13:42 <zyklotomic> yeah, like I can say Go is the only language it would seem to make sense for
2020-11-21 15:13:44 <merijn> Which is "solve every problem by making the exact opposite of the right choice" :p
2020-11-21 15:13:53 <sondr3_> Especially when contributing to other peoples packages
2020-11-21 15:13:57 <merijn> Go got 2 things right
2020-11-21 15:14:00 <maerwald> merijn: it's twice as bad if you're one of those people who memorize code based on the structure and someone else decides to run an autoformatter over it
2020-11-21 15:14:04 <merijn> 1) cross-compilation support from day 1
2020-11-21 15:14:10 <merijn> 2) lightweight threading
2020-11-21 15:14:31 <merijn> Possibly 3? I think they default link static too?
2020-11-21 15:14:39 <maerwald> I think more important than reading code is... navigating code :)
2020-11-21 15:14:48 <maerwald> (because most stuff you don't actually wanna read)
2020-11-21 15:14:49 <merijn> that too
2020-11-21 15:14:52 × da39a3ee5e6b4b0d quits (~da39a3ee5@171.5.161.165) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-21 15:15:02 <hpc> 2 is kind of iffy as well, doesn't their lightweight threading not give you very much control over the threads themselves?
2020-11-21 15:15:07 ← Lycurgus parts (~niemand@cpe-45-46-142-188.buffalo.res.rr.com) ("Deus Ex")
2020-11-21 15:15:38 <merijn> hpc: Well, at least even *they* designers of "the most backwards language since the 80s" realised that OS threading as default was dumb
2020-11-21 15:15:44 <merijn> Gotta give them credit for that :p
2020-11-21 15:15:53 <zyklotomic> Feuermagier: what do you mean
2020-11-21 15:15:58 <hpc> yeah true
2020-11-21 15:15:59 <zyklotomic> could you give an ex
2020-11-21 15:16:09 <yushyin> zyklotomic: sondr3_: hls uses ormolu, so there you go.
2020-11-21 15:16:28 <sondr3_> I use ormolu too,
2020-11-21 15:16:29 <Feuermagier> zyklotomic, compine x with every argument out of [list] by function f - cycle through the list, keep x
2020-11-21 15:17:00 × Inoperable quits (~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science) (Excess Flood)
2020-11-21 15:17:14 <sondr3_> It's my absolute least favorite formatter, Britanny looks better but I get the feeling that it has some deep architectural problems
2020-11-21 15:17:52 <merijn> Feuermagier: Can you give an example of an input and output
2020-11-21 15:18:40 <yushyin> sondr3_: just don't think/care about it :P you said it yourself
2020-11-21 15:19:14 → Inoperable joins (~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science)
2020-11-21 15:19:17 → czwartyeon joins (4d2d3763@77-45-55-99.sta.asta-net.com.pl)
2020-11-21 15:19:28 <Feuermagier> merijn, x=3, [0,1,2] function = "*" result=[0,3,6]
2020-11-21 15:19:37 × czwartye1 quits (~czwartyeo@77-45-55-99.sta.asta-net.com.pl) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2020-11-21 15:19:53 → czwartye1 joins (~czwartyeo@77-45-55-99.sta.asta-net.com.pl)
2020-11-21 15:20:02 <merijn> You don't need zipWith, just map :p
2020-11-21 15:20:04 <sondr3_> yushyin: Haha, I know, at least I mostly agree with rustfmt, I just don't like how ormolu puts the comma at the end of lines and not the beginning :(
2020-11-21 15:20:13 <Feuermagier> merijn, essentially zipWith, but with one argument just being [x,x,x,x,x...]
2020-11-21 15:20:26 <merijn> > map (3*) [0,1,2]
2020-11-21 15:20:28 <lambdabot> [0,3,6]
2020-11-21 15:20:29 <Feuermagier> *oh*
2020-11-21 15:20:46 <Feuermagier> THX!
2020-11-21 15:20:46 <zyklotomic> wait you can do that?
2020-11-21 15:20:56 <zyklotomic> i've been doing (*3) the entire time
2020-11-21 15:21:00 <zyklotomic> oh right
2020-11-21 15:21:05 <merijn> zyklotomic: you can do both
2020-11-21 15:21:11 <zyklotomic> yeah it never occured to me
2020-11-21 15:21:18 <merijn> It matters, actually
2020-11-21 15:21:28 <merijn> > map (/2) [1..10]
2020-11-21 15:21:31 <lambdabot> [0.5,1.0,1.5,2.0,2.5,3.0,3.5,4.0,4.5,5.0]
2020-11-21 15:21:36 <merijn> > map (2/) [1..10]
2020-11-21 15:21:38 <lambdabot> [2.0,1.0,0.6666666666666666,0.5,0.4,0.3333333333333333,0.2857142857142857,0....
2020-11-21 15:21:42 <zyklotomic> oh or the ugly
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