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2021-03-20 15:10:23 hackage rattletrap 11.0.1 - Parse and generate Rocket League replays. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rattletrap-11.0.1 (fozworth)
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2021-03-20 15:49:51 <bbhoss> How much do I need to think about stack depth and tail call optimization with Haskell?
2021-03-20 15:51:18 <c_wraith> several things: GHC uses the stack for nested evaluation, not fucntion calls. All tail calls are eliminated. And tail calls are usually inferior to guarded co-recursion
2021-03-20 15:51:20 <Lycurgus> that they are things
2021-03-20 15:52:34 <c_wraith> So... sometimes tail calls come up. But it's usually more important to focus on preventing nested evaluation
2021-03-20 15:52:41 <Lycurgus> these days when would you ever "worry" about stack depth, outside of normal programming sensicality?
2021-03-20 15:52:49 <c_wraith> or rather, deeply-nested evaluation
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2021-03-20 15:55:20 <bbhoss> I am coming from elixir, and it does do tco but the last thing you do in a function must be calling itself, otherwise it will add a frame and not optimize. So I’m wondering is there something similar I should watch out for
2021-03-20 15:55:41 <c_wraith> bbhoss: most of the time it's the wrong thing to worry about. stack frames don't come from function calls
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2021-03-20 15:56:44 <bbhoss> Like most of the fib examples you see aren’t able to be optimized in elixir, you must add an additional parameter for passing state across calls to make it optimizable. I’ve seen very similar fib Haskell examples and wondered if they’re potentially problematic
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2021-03-20 15:57:13 <c_wraith> only in that they take exponential time....
2021-03-20 15:57:26 <bbhoss> Gotcha, that’s cool
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2021-03-20 15:58:04 <c_wraith> I mean, they do created nested evaluation, so they do use stack.. but the runtime is exponential in the stack depth, so that's not usually a concern.
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2021-03-20 15:58:12 <c_wraith> also, GHC will grow a thread's stack on demand
2021-03-20 15:58:23 <c_wraith> you really need to work to run out of stack space
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2021-03-20 15:59:19 <c_wraith> but you *really* need to pay attention to creating nested evaluation
2021-03-20 15:59:28 <c_wraith> @src foldl
2021-03-20 15:59:29 <lambdabot> foldl f z [] = z
2021-03-20 15:59:29 <lambdabot> foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs
2021-03-20 15:59:35 <c_wraith> look, nicely tail recursive
2021-03-20 15:59:56 <c_wraith> But that's irrelevant, because it still creates a huge nested expression
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2021-03-20 16:00:06 <c_wraith> actually evaluating the result can be quite slow
2021-03-20 16:00:40 <c_wraith> (Before GHC started growing the stack when needed, it was an easy way to show exceeding the stack size)
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2021-03-20 16:00:55 <bbhoss> Great, yeah I have a list of lists which represent a rank ordered list of votes for candidates. I want to basically do a simple election tally so I need to sum. It’s basically a reduce/fold but I was wondering if I wrote the function myself instead of using fold is it something I’d need to worry with. In elixir reduce/fold handle these tco details where if you roll your own you do need to worry
2021-03-20 16:01:54 <c_wraith> you don't need to worry about the stack.
2021-03-20 16:02:17 <c_wraith> but you absolutely need to worry about nested expressions
2021-03-20 16:04:13 <c_wraith> please understand: Haskell requires you to consider different things. The model is different. If you try to treat it the same as any other language, you'll find the results unsatisfying
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