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2020-09-29 08:48:49 <fog> like, is this racing actors a way to avoid blocking at the expense of determinism?
2020-09-29 08:49:14 → cpressey joins (~cpressey@79-72-202-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
2020-09-29 08:49:21 <fog> that doesnt sound like a good idea from the tradition of pure functional programing where we require reproducibility of programs
2020-09-29 08:49:23 × ChaiTRex quits (~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-29 08:50:19 <fog> then you would need some way for this lattice of actors to have like a sat solver or something to guarantee it is free from blockages
2020-09-29 08:50:42 → ChaiTRex joins (~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex)
2020-09-29 08:51:03 <fog> that seems like it could somehow be encoded at type level as the topology, but that would require some kind of guarantees about the functions ability to return
2020-09-29 08:51:24 <fog> like basically, you would have it in ST or pure, so that it wasnt doing any blocking IO
2020-09-29 08:52:12 <fog> then these "pure actors" could have network topological guaranties basically as "the shape of the program" at type level to be non-blocking by construction
2020-09-29 08:53:01 <fog> i guess that also then gives rise to a determinable evaluation order inferred by the topology
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2020-09-29 08:53:46 → heatsink joins (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-29 08:53:48 <fog> but then, actors are supposed to be able to spawn new actors - so how would you have these runtime guaranties at type level
2020-09-29 08:54:43 <fog> i guess there is proabably some deep result there about how actors, by having runtime variable topoligies, *have* to have the racing and mailboxes in order to then not require this typechecking
2020-09-29 08:55:14 × mnrmnaugh quits (~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-09-29 08:55:26 <fog> then it seems like the fundamental problem is the reconciliation of runtime variable determinism guarantees in concurrent pure programming
2020-09-29 08:55:47 <fog> which sounds kind of above my pay grade
2020-09-29 08:56:01 × werneta quits (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-09-29 08:56:31 <fog> maybe if i had a working actors model, i could get some simulated elves to do it...
2020-09-29 08:56:56 <fog> all talking elvish
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2020-09-29 09:00:24 × snakemasterflex quits (~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-29 09:00:36 <dminuoso> AWizzArd: getPostParam?
2020-09-29 09:01:12 <dminuoso> Oh wait, this is something else
2020-09-29 09:01:57 <dminuoso> snap is weird
2020-09-29 09:02:12 <hc> why would you switch from servant to snap?
2020-09-29 09:02:12 <AWizzArd> dminuoso: Yeah, I can fetch contents of the Request and then do with it whatever I want.
2020-09-29 09:02:23 <hc> (just curious)
2020-09-29 09:02:28 <AWizzArd> hc: experimentation, seeing different styles.
2020-09-29 09:02:39 <AWizzArd> Our main service is using Servant.
2020-09-29 09:02:43 → cfricke joins (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2020-09-29 09:02:47 <AWizzArd> Now for a small email service I’m trying Snap.
2020-09-29 09:03:18 <AWizzArd> I think in Snap I need to do things a tiny bit more manually.
2020-09-29 09:03:59 × davve quits (davve@bsd.douchedata.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-29 09:04:01 <dminuoso> AWizzArd: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/snap-core-1.0.4.2/docs/Snap-Internal-Core.html#v:getRequest
2020-09-29 09:04:13 <dminuoso> There you can extract the body from.
2020-09-29 09:04:56 × dredozubov quits (~dredozubo@37.139.21.214) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-29 09:04:58 <AWizzArd> dminuoso: Right, and it works. I guess my main question is if I need to do this manually. Or if there is a Servant-like mechanism that lets me declaritively describe an expected request, and have Snap deliver me automatically args.
2020-09-29 09:05:15 <AWizzArd> The „YOU can extract the body” part (:
2020-09-29 09:05:20 <dminuoso> So you're looking for servant? ;)
2020-09-29 09:05:46 <dminuoso> But really, you can relatively trivially write your own combinator
2020-09-29 09:06:03 → snakemasterflex joins (~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-09-29 09:06:42 <AWizzArd> dminuoso: Another thing I am looking for: what if I want to use a ReaderT Context where I can place some nice TVars? How would I serve a site using my own reader?
2020-09-29 09:06:56 → carlomagno1 joins (~cararell@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com)
2020-09-29 09:07:13 <AWizzArd> The httpServe function wants a `Snap ()` value.
2020-09-29 09:07:22 <dminuoso> getJSONRequest :: (FromJson t, MonadSnap m) => m t; getJSONRequest = do <- body <- rqBody <$> getRequest; buf <- ...; decode buf `note` ParseError ...
2020-09-29 09:07:54 <dminuoso> Some badly written pseudo, but i hope it conveys my thoughts
2020-09-29 09:08:17 <dminuoso> AWizzArd: Write your own MonadSnap instance.
2020-09-29 09:08:46 <dminuoso> In case of ReaderT, you can trivially unwrap it no? ;)
2020-09-29 09:08:50 <AWizzArd> dminuoso: yes, the route :: MonadSnap m => [(ByteString, m a)] -> m a looks good. There also already IS a ReaderT instance for MonadSnap.
2020-09-29 09:09:00 × dexterlb quits (~dexterlb@2a01:9e40:2:2::2) (Quit: Boing)
2020-09-29 09:09:23 <dminuoso> say, you have `data App a = App { runApp :: ReaderT Env (Snap a) } deriving (Functor, Applicative, Monad, MonadSnap, MonadReader Env)`
2020-09-29 09:09:26 × coot quits (~coot@37.30.59.210.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2020-09-29 09:09:41 <AWizzArd> dminuoso: shouldn’t there me some foo :: (MonadSnap m) => m -> Snap () ?
2020-09-29 09:09:41 <dminuoso> Then you can just say `httpServce . runReaderT someEnv . runApp $ someApp`
2020-09-29 09:09:47 × carlomagno quits (~cararell@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-29 09:09:52 <dminuoso> AWizzArd: ^- that.
2020-09-29 09:10:03 → davve joins (~davve@bsd.douchedata.com)
2020-09-29 09:10:18 × aplainzetakind quits (~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2020-09-29 09:10:20 <dminuoso> Think of ReaderT as being just a function, then getting the Snap out of it is just a matter of providing the argument.
2020-09-29 09:10:22 → TooDifficult joins (~TooDiffic@139.59.59.230)
2020-09-29 09:10:35 <AWizzArd> Yes, that makes sense.
2020-09-29 09:10:41 → coot joins (~coot@37.30.59.210.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2020-09-29 09:10:41 <dminuoso> Oh, I think the argument was flipped around.
2020-09-29 09:11:00 <dminuoso> so `httpSevce . flip runReaderT someEnv . runApp $ someApp`
2020-09-29 09:11:46 <dminuoso> (So if we squint a bit, runReaderT is just ($))
2020-09-29 09:14:23 → heatsink joins (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2020-09-29 09:16:06 × jgt quits (~jgt@194.143.137.49.users.breezein.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-29 09:18:21 <AWizzArd> dminuoso: yes, that makes sense. The runReaderT is that function that returns the `Snap ()`.
2020-09-29 09:18:47 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-29 09:19:16 <dminuoso> This is no different than servant btw
2020-09-29 09:20:50 <dminuoso> Abstractly, in both snap and servant you need a natural transformation `T ~> Snap` and respectively `T ~> Handler`. In servant you provide that in hoistServer, and in snap it's a bit more direct.
2020-09-29 09:20:59 <dminuoso> (Where T is your custom monad)
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