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2021-05-06 08:02:31 → kritzefitz joins (~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
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2021-05-06 08:03:06 → geowiesnot joins (~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-05-06 08:03:36 <tdammers> also, the naive OOP design approach ("identify domain objects; make them classes; identify domain operations; make them methods of the class that is the noun of the operation") isn't very good in practice
2021-05-06 08:05:25 <[exa]> it's almost a good practice if all classes really correspond to objects and all methods really correspond to verbs
2021-05-06 08:05:58 <[exa]> uNfOrTuNaTeLy reality often denies this representation
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2021-05-06 08:14:10 <tdammers> it's not the noun-object/verb-method thing I find questionable per se; it's which nouns and verbs you choose, and "verbs must be accompanied by nouns at all times" (Kingdom Of Nouns)
2021-05-06 08:14:35 <tdammers> I mean, we do "noun-data/verb-function" in haskell all the time
2021-05-06 08:15:30 → ph88 joins (~ph88@ip5f5af6fd.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-05-06 08:15:40 <ph88> hi all
2021-05-06 08:16:02 <ph88> is there some thing/hack that can be done to export more from a module for testing purposes only ?
2021-05-06 08:16:34 <merijn> ph88: No
2021-05-06 08:17:18 <merijn> ph88: You can work around this by having an internal library that exports everything and then have the public library and tests using that, with the public library only exporting a subset
2021-05-06 08:17:27 <tdammers> ph88: a somewhat uncontroversial thing to do is to put the library internals in modules named "Internal", but still expose them
2021-05-06 08:17:41 <ph88> thanks guys
2021-05-06 08:18:09 <tdammers> the "Internal" module name signals that the module isn't intended for consumers of the library, and its API may change without notice, and isn't considered covered by PVP
2021-05-06 08:18:40 × othe1 quits (~othe@139.28.218.148) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-06 08:24:22 <olle> xsperry: I'm actually not convinced that's true. FP feels like you have to touch old code both when adding operations AND new data.
2021-05-06 08:25:37 <jacks2> how so? if you add a new operation (function), old code remains the same
2021-05-06 08:26:51 × berberman quits (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-06 08:27:19 × todda7 quits (~torstein@2a02:587:3724:1a75:aca:df22:9d82:969f) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-06 08:27:23 → berberman joins (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
2021-05-06 08:28:13 <tdammers> touching old code isn't bad per se
2021-05-06 08:28:37 <tdammers> it's only bad when you can't do it safely
2021-05-06 08:28:46 <DigitalKiwi> at least in haskell touching old code is not so painful
2021-05-06 08:28:48 <jacks2> olle, this page has good examples: http://wiki.c2.com/?ExpressionProblem
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2021-05-06 08:29:38 × geowiesnot quits (~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-06 08:30:04 <DigitalKiwi> python i wrote a week ago i have no effing idea what it does anymore and takes hours to debug; haskell from years ago that i don't even remember how to write i can modify >.>
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2021-05-06 08:30:48 <tdammers> that's the "change it safely" part I was hinting at
2021-05-06 08:31:27 <jacks2> olle, note that this isn't related to languages, but to modeling. record of functions follow OOP style of modeling, so adding a new functionality would require modifying original file (to add new function in the record)
2021-05-06 08:33:24 <DigitalKiwi> tdammers: yeah i hadn't even read all of your messages when i started typing lol
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2021-05-06 08:45:40 <olle> I was thinking if splitting one OOP class into multiple files, each file implementing an interface, would "solve" the expression problem.
2021-05-06 08:46:03 <olle> extend class Foo with SaveableInterface { save(dbConnection); }
2021-05-06 08:46:09 <Aleksejs> Hello, I tried to implement a "cyclic" type (succ maxBound = minBound) and I managed to do that but it looks quite ugly http://vpaste.net/NmA9K. I wonder if there is a better way
2021-05-06 08:48:33 × remedan quits (~remedan@balak.me) (Quit: Bye!)
2021-05-06 08:48:42 <tdammers> olle: the explanation is a bit involved, but no, it doesn't. you're just moving the problem around.
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2021-05-06 08:51:22 <jacks2> olle, see this: http://www.cs.ru.nl/~W.Swierstra/Publications/DataTypesALaCarte.pdf
2021-05-06 08:51:52 <olle> jacks2: thanks!
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2021-05-06 09:25:43 <carbolymer> my application uses 8GB of RAM, in heap profile I can only see ~1GB of memory
2021-05-06 09:25:52 × geowiesnot quits (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-06 09:25:56 <carbolymer> where's the rest? stack?
2021-05-06 09:26:50 <[exa]> fragmentation?
2021-05-06 09:26:59 × stree quits (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-06 09:27:01 <carbolymer> you mean slop? or what?
2021-05-06 09:31:35 <merijn> carbolymer: How are you measuring that 8GB?
2021-05-06 09:31:58 <carbolymer> merijn: EKG, current residency
2021-05-06 09:32:22 <merijn> current residency of 8GB? oof...
2021-05-06 09:32:42 <merijn> carbolymer: Probably pinned memory if it's not heap?
2021-05-06 09:33:21 <merijn> carbolymer: But without any profilng output/source/whatever all anyone can do is blind guesswork
2021-05-06 09:33:45 <carbolymer> merijn: pinned shows up in heap output afair
2021-05-06 09:35:13 <merijn> carbolymer: I can't think of anything that would be that big and not in the profiling output, tbh
2021-05-06 09:35:36 <merijn> carbolymer: What does "+RTS -sstderr" report?
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