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2021-04-14 09:21:01 Sorna joins (~Sornaensi@077213203030.dynamic.telenor.dk)
2021-04-14 09:22:25 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-04-14 09:30:36 <gnumonic> So I'd like to use type level Peano numbers with the singletons library. I don't think that the library itself provides that and I'm pretty sure I shouldn't use typelits, so is there some preferred library that interfaces with singletons? Or does everyone just roll their own and prove axioms of number theory as they need them? :p
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2021-04-14 09:37:54 <__monty__> That's not an unlikely scenario, given haskell's not really suited to theorem proving anyway.
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2021-04-14 09:41:16 merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-14 09:41:23 <gnumonic> Bearing in mind that I know nothing about how TypeLits are implemented at all, is there some reason GHC's typechecker can't prove simple facts about typelevel numbers?
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2021-04-14 09:42:54 DavidEichmann joins (~david@47.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net)
2021-04-14 09:43:31 <__monty__> No, it's just not a popular pursuit.
2021-04-14 09:43:34 <__monty__> @where hasochism
2021-04-14 09:43:35 <lambdabot> I know nothing about hasochism.
2021-04-14 09:43:41 × LKoen quits (~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-14 09:43:57 <DigitalKiwi> dibblego gave me some peano exercises maybe he has an idea
2021-04-14 09:43:58 × Foritus quits (~buggery@cpc91316-watf11-2-0-cust68.15-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-14 09:44:00 <kuribas> I don't get why people think haskell is about proving business logic in types.
2021-04-14 09:44:18 × Tesseraction quits (~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-14 09:44:27 <__monty__> This paper shows what's possible and how inconvenient it is compared to a language with support for such things, https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/2578854.2503786
2021-04-14 09:44:58 <kuribas> I see haskell more like, it's a language with nice abstractions, and a type system that is expressive enough to express and guard those abstractions.
2021-04-14 09:45:13 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-04-14 09:45:28 <__monty__> kuribas: You're extrapolating. gnumonic is probably just interested in this. No harm checking it out.
2021-04-14 09:46:08 <__monty__> gnumonic: Codewares.io has a couple fun type-level hackery challenges.
2021-04-14 09:46:13 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-14 09:46:27 <kuribas> __monty__: I am not saying you shouldn't have fun with it.
2021-04-14 09:46:32 × nut quits (~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-14 09:46:58 <gnumonic> monty: mkay I'll check it out, thank you. And yeah I'm just sort of experimenting with what I can do at the type level.
2021-04-14 09:47:21 merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-04-14 09:48:23 <kuribas> __monty__: I am just saying you probably make your life harder if you go that route.
2021-04-14 09:48:24 <DigitalKiwi> kuribas: the real mad lads are the people that write their business logic in hedgehog
2021-04-14 09:48:52 <__monty__> DigitalKiwi: Surely you mean describe their business logic to hedgehog and have it infer the implementation? : )
2021-04-14 09:49:13 <DigitalKiwi> https://clrnd.com.ar/posts/2017-04-21-the-water-jug-problem-in-hedgehog.html idk :D
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2021-04-14 09:52:09 <kuribas> I've been wondering if there is a way to create tests for edge cases...
2021-04-14 09:52:28 <kuribas> Like, you have some code, and you generate tests which will exercise all code paths.
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2021-04-14 09:53:23 <__monty__> I think maybe there's some FSM test machinery that does so?
2021-04-14 09:54:05 <__monty__> The general problem sounds very Halting-y to me.
2021-04-14 09:54:54 <kuribas> I had a bug in our compression algorithm which happened only in few cases.
2021-04-14 09:55:05 <kuribas> Luckily we did a large scale test first.
2021-04-14 09:55:08 <DigitalKiwi> smolcheck
2021-04-14 09:55:43 rdivyanshu joins (uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-andoqpzjmzizoeoe)
2021-04-14 09:55:47 <kuribas> https://github.com/burmanm/compression-int/issues/6
2021-04-14 09:55:48 <DigitalKiwi> kuribas: "large scale test" == "pushed to prod" ?
2021-04-14 09:56:00 <kuribas> DigitalKiwi: before pushing to prod even!
2021-04-14 09:56:03 <maralorn> kuribas: There is a difference between "proving your business logic" and using typelevel nats for good code. I e.g. am doing a lot of stuff mit matrices and tracking on the typelevel that their dimensions match seems not crazy to me at all.
2021-04-14 09:56:16 <DigitalKiwi> kuribas: congrats you're a 10x dev
2021-04-14 09:56:27 <maralorn> Although the constraints "(KnownNat n, KnownNat k, KnownNat (n * k), (n * k) ~ (k * n)) =>" are certainly not satisfying.
2021-04-14 09:56:45 <kuribas> DigitalKiwi: not sure, it took us months testing and integrating the compression.
2021-04-14 09:57:43 <DigitalKiwi> well if had gone to prod it would have likely become a feature
2021-04-14 09:57:47 <kuribas> maralorn: my take is, avoid complicated types if you can, otherwise just use them :-)
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2021-04-14 09:58:27 <DigitalKiwi> as in, it'd never get fixed, all future code would be aware of it, and require its existence
2021-04-14 09:58:50 merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-14 09:59:38 <DigitalKiwi> ...or not aware of it and be extra perplexing when it doesn't work :D
2021-04-14 10:00:25 <kuribas> Or customers suddenly not making their quotas because of the change to compression...
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